Building Surveyor- Can I claim negligence?

jd93

Hi All Merry Xmas,

I recently purchased a 2 bed house.

I instructed a building surveyor to review the property. I asked the surveyor specifically (in writing) to review an archway in the living room. The archway appeared to be where a wall had been knocked down and it is supporting a wall upstairs and more weight. The archway had a crack in it, it was thin and ran down both side of the archway. I am not structurally qualified in anyway so requested that it be reviewed. In addition, the wall upstairs had a horizontal crack in it running the length of the wall.

The archway had woodchip wall paper, however, it was clear that the crack was very visible at the time. The surveyor finished the survey and told us in the report that it is nothing to worry about and needs to be filled and redecorated. In addition the surveyor did not advise us to request building regulations which I now found out that this would have been a basic recommendation based on the fact the wall had been knocked down.

Recently we removed the woodchip wallpaper, from this we uncovered more cracking on the archway. We were very concerned by this as it appeared that there was an issue. We instructed a structural surveyor to review the archway who has since concluded that the beam does not have an RSJ and is not structurally sound.

My argument is that the building survey did not advise us correctly and was negligent. I feel that at the minimum the surveyor should have advised us that the beam could be an issue and there was a risk. Based on this we would have either adjusted the value of our property or pulled out of the purchase or seeked further advice. Based on their judgement we proceeded with the purchase and now are facing thousands of pounds to fix the issue.

The surveyors argument is "I am prepared to concede that my recommendations might have been different in terms of recommending a second opinion by a structural engineer, I am not prepared to accept liability for the lack of support to the archway nor accept negligence in relation to my recommendation was made in good faith, based entirely on what was visible to me at the time of inspection". He argues that based on the cracking that he saw at the time he didnt think anything was wrong and therefore advised us as best as he could at the time. He said that he couldnt have known that the archway has no RSJ or support. I feel that there was no evidence to say it was supported and actually the evidence suggested that potentially it might not be structurally sound.

We have complained and requested compensation in a series of communications (back and forth). The surveyor is willing to make a commercial offer of £500, which is basically a refund on his service with no acceptance of negligence. This does not come close to the cost of rectifying the issue and in it's current state if we were to sell it would be devalued by tens of thousands of pounds.

We understand our options are to sue the surveyor, but we understand the time and cost makes this almost impossible for a first time buyer.

Secondly we could enter into mediation with RICS, we are open to this and understand that this will also come at a cost. We dont want to enter into this process unless we have a strong indication we will win as again we have very little funds.

My question to you is do you think we would win the case? Is the surveyor negligent in the advise given based on the evidence and would he be liable? From my side the archway was clearly supporting the wall above. The beam is also supporting all of the weight of the floors above and if he looked at the floor joists he would have seen this. The weight bearing is tremendous. The crack in the archway and the significance of the archway in supporting the building should have been a red flag to a qualified person and he should have at the minimum highlighted it as a caution in our report, especially as I requested it to be reviewed specifically.

dunroving

Could the surveyor have reasonably been able to assess the damage without removing the wallpaper?

billy2shots

If you had structural concerns , why didn't you employ a structural engineer originally?

Trying to save money often ends up costing more in the long run. Chalk it up to experience and move on.

Tom99

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Is this the RICS mediation service you had in mind?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]https://www.rics.org/uk/footer/dispute-resolution-service/drs-services/acre-mediation/[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The RICS offer several types of dispute resolution so I am not sure which one you had in mind.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If its the above then that is not in any way like referring the matter to a 3[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]rd[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] party expert, all the mediator does is enable you both to have a dialogue.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]'[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Our mediators will not offer any evaluation of parties’ positions or opinion unless all parties expressly agree to seek it. Similarly, they will not advise on the merits of any settlement. They will chair and manage the mediation process, and oversee and manage negotiation between the parties.' [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]So as well as paying the mediator you will probably have to employ your own expert, maybe the structural engineer you have? Have you asked them what they think of the strength of your case?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]On the face of it you would think your case was sound, you as a layman identified a potential problem and you employed an expert to advice you. That expert could have said there is little more I can tell you about that crack without some form of opening up. Instead he told you it was nothing to worry about and just fill the crack. What exactly did his report say?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]He should only have told you there was nothing to worry about if he was sure that was the case, after all that is exactly why you were paying him – the expert.[/FONT]

jd93

The surveyor did not need to remove the wallpaper, there was evidence of cracking on both sides. If there was any thought that the archway was not structurally sound he could advised for further investigation. We could have removed wallpaper before the sale and If we couldnt we would have pulled out of the sale.

Secondly, I was not saving money hence why I undertook a building survey, the most extensive survey you have on a home above a home buyers survey or simple valuation. Unfortunately I cant "chalk it up to experience" as it's going to cost me a large amount of money that I dont have and hence why I'm asking for advice on this forum.

Pennywise

Would you really have been happy if the surveyor had just said he couldn't be sure and suggested a structural surveyor? You'd then be coming on here saying what's the point of a "normal" surveyor if all they're going to do is look and suggest someone else has a proper look.

jd93

Thanks for your reply Tom. I am unsure which RICS process it is, I will contact them to find out. From what I've read the mediation with a third party can enforce a surveyor to act e.g. provide compensation.

I completely agree with your points. The survey replied in the survey with this point:

"There was a crack in the archway between the lounge and dining room. We do not believe this is anything of any structural concern other than perhaps a bit of differential movement between different materials as they flex; it might have been caused when the plaque was fixed over the arch. The crack can be filled and redecorated. Action: Fill and redecorate the crack in the archway between the lounge and dining room". Unfortunately this was completely wrong. We noticed a crack in the bedroom wall above but didn't think anything of it (no building/structural experience at all) and now also understand this would have been a sign of a potential issue.

billy2shots

jd93 wrote: »

.

Secondly, I was not saving money hence why I undertook a building survey, the most extensive survey you have on a home above a home buyers survey or simple valuation. Unfortunately I cant "chalk it up to experience" as it's going to cost me a large amount of money that I dont have and hence why I'm asking for advice on this forum.

My question still stands. You had concerns over the structure of the house. You didn't employ the expert that you needed to.
Most houses have small cracks somewhere if you look hard enough. a surveyor will not go around people's houses removing wallpaper to find the extent of the issue.
He gave you his opinion because that was all he can do. You wanted a black and white answer for which you needed to have a structural survey carried out.

You had the correct Survey done AFTER you bought the house and that mistake is costing you. Now you are looking to pass on the blame/cost to someone else.

You quote them yourself 'We do not believe '
That's fair enough and I can't see any blame.

jd93

Yes I would have been extremely happy as I could have made an informed decision in the largest purchase of my life with all my lifes savings. By not being informed I couldn't and now I am in the situation. Please do not troll my thread with unhelpful comments.

jd93

Again not helpful for my original question and I replied to you so please do not provide an unhelpful opinion billy2shots.

A chartered building surveyor is the correct person to review a property before purchase.
There was no requisite to remove wall paper at the time of survey, if required we could do this at anytime during the purchase.
The structural review of the beam was done after the purchase at the time of the purchase I took the qualified chartered surveyors advice that it was sound. When looking at the archway i became more concerned and seeked further advice..
He gave an opinion, but was paid to do that. If you seek legal advice and it is incorrect you are liable. It's called negligence. Please only comment on the thread if you are to answer the questions asked:

My question to you is do you think we would win the case? Is the surveyor negligent in the advise given based on the evidence and would he be liable?

I'm sure you will come back with another helpful reply.

jd93

in addition, if anyone has any experience in this situation please can you advise on best next steps.