Help needed - listed building

Vik

Hi,
We have made an offer of £382,000 on a house that was originally up for £400,000 and it has finally been accepted after the house was readvertised in the paper last week and so-on. After taking their time accepting the offer the estate agent is now really pushing us on completion in 21 days. It is a repossesion property, but has been on the market now for nearly 4 months and I have just found out that it is Grade 2 listed property, which we had not been made aware of.
I am worried about this for a few reasons. One is that we are buying this house to do up, as it is in a bad state, so obviously we are not prepared to proceed without a full building survey, as the house is over 150 years old and is a period/regency style property, whether the estate agent is rushing us or not. The other is that we are now unsure as to whether we will be able to make all the changes that we wanted to especially in terms of the lower ground floor. We are also concerned about an extension that was performed many years ago - where the back half of the house has had the ceilings lowered to make space for an extension on the second floor. We are concerned that this was done without the proper permissions, as surely if the house is listed this would be detracting from the original features of the house (i.e the beautiful high ceiling and coving etc). Essentially we have a house that has beautiful high ceilings at the front and then very low and is nowhere near as nice at the back. We were hoping to open out and modernise the back, but are now concerned as to whether we will be able to do this because of it being listed. We are just about to find a solicitor and was hoping to find someone who specialises in listed buildings, but when we get the survey done we were wondering whether its possible to go with someone who will be able to offer advice on structural work at the back, or can offer architectural services at this stage, or whether to wait until after completion for that?
I was hoping that some people had some useful comments and advice on what to do in terms of this, or on listed buildings in general?
Thanks for reading and any responses will be greatly appreciated.

marybishop

Vik - a Chartered Building Surveyor who has experience of listed buildings would be one way forward as when he does the survey he should be able to answer a lot of the queries you have as to what has been done and what you would like to do. To find one in your area if you look on the RICS website www.rics.org and click on 'Find a Surveyor' you can then view ones in your area and give them a call to discuss exactly what you're after and also compare fees. Listed buildings can be very tricky and not something to enter into unknowingly especially if you are hoping to make alterations, etc.

Debt_Free_Chick

Vik wrote: »

The other is that we are now unsure as to whether we will be able to make all the changes that we wanted to especially in terms of the lower ground floor.

Work on the assumption that you will need to change your plans. If you want to know what you can do, before you buy, call the Conservation Officer at the local planning office. You can only make changes which are approved by the CO - and in some cases, even the colour of the paint is specified.

We are also concerned about an extension that was performed many years ago - where the back half of the house has had the ceilings lowered to make space for an extension on the second floor. We are concerned that this was done without the proper permissions, as surely if the house is listed this would be detracting from the original features of the house (i.e the beautiful high ceiling and coving etc).

It could be far worse than that. If the work was done without Listed Building Consent, you will be responsible for putting it right. But your solicitor will check this - specifically ask them to check re the extension. Or, if you are confident about doing this search yourself, you need to go through the Planning/Listed Building Consent approvals at the local planning office. Which council is this? They may have the records online (mine does).

Essentially we have a house that has beautiful high ceilings at the front and then very low and is nowhere near as nice at the back. We were hoping to open out and modernise the back, but are now concerned as to whether we will be able to do this because of it being listed. We are just about to find a solicitor and was hoping to find someone who specialises in listed buildings, but when we get the survey done we were wondering whether its possible to go with someone who will be able to offer advice on structural work at the back, or can offer architectural services at this stage, or whether to wait until after completion for that?

For a cheap and cheerful rough idea, talk to the Conservation Officer about what you want to do. If his/her comments are in line with what you want, proceed with the sale - but yes, you need a good surveyor.

You can search for one that specialises in period properties and/or refurbishments and many other things on the RICS site

Listed Buildings - you are pretty much a caretaker for future generations of owners

Debt_Free_Chick

marybishop wrote: »

To find one in your area if you look on the RICS website www.rics.org and click on 'Find a Surveyor'

Sorry - I hadn't spotted you'd done that when I posted.

Still - that's two votes for the RICS search facility

benood

You should certainly check up on the old alterations - when we moved into a listed house the previous owners had made a lot of changes without listed building consent and had to change a few of them (some nasty cheapo doors and windows), but others went through on the nod - a big knock through for instance.

I doubt you need worry too much if you are reinstating the back of the house as most conservation officers would see this as an improvement - you will have to work within the guidelines but as long as you don't plan anything controversial I would have thought you'd be OK - we made some pretty major changes to the place and never had a whisper of trouble from the conservation officer.

One silver lining is that for new works you won't have to pay VAT as long as you've obtained listed building consent.

marybishop

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

Sorry - I hadn't spotted you'd done that when I posted.

Still - that's two votes for the RICS search facility

Absolutely!!

Vik

benood wrote: »

One silver lining is that for new works you won't have to pay VAT as long as you've obtained listed building consent.

Sorry if I'm being dumb, but does this mean then that if we do do work and have obtained consent then we don't have to pay VAT?

Thanks to all the posters so far for all their comments, they've been very helpful and should hopefully get me started on the right track!

Debt_Free_Chick

Vik wrote: »

Sorry if I'm being dumb, but does this mean then that if we do do work and have obtained consent then we don't have to pay VAT?

Yes - but I think it's only in relation to the work that needs listed building consent.

If you have 20 jobs to do and only 15 of those are covered by LBC, then you do not have to pay VAT on the cost of those 15 jobs.

Start with this

Debt_Free_Chick

Or more importantly ....

English Heritage

benood

VAT is only recoverable on the works which are new - ie a new extension, conservatory, where there wasn't one before. But you can push it I think, for instance claiming on replacing old single glazed windows with new double glazed etc.

Doozergirl

Vik wrote: »

I am worried about this for a few reasons. One is that we are buying this house to do up, as it is in a bad state, so obviously we are not prepared to proceed without a full building survey, as the house is over 150 years old and is a period/regency style property.

Don't worry about what the agent is pushing you to do too much; wanting a full survey is totally normal given the circumstances. You need to be aware of pushing it through asap; there is always the chance that someone else will want to buy and the quicker you move, the bet chance you have of securing the house for yourself. tbh, you are within millimetres of asking price so I doubt anyone else will jump in.

Vik wrote: »

The other is that we are now unsure as to whether we will be able to make all the changes that we wanted to especially in terms of the lower ground floor. .

Conservation officers are open to ideas. What you don't want to do is remove *too* much character. You always have the play off of restoring the building versus wanting to make a family home. Conservation is as much about the evolution of a house as it is about retaining features. It just needs to be clear, when reading the fabric of the building, what is new and what is old. It could conceivably be harder for you to mould an extension sympathetically in than it would be to add a glass creation.

Vik wrote: »

We are also concerned about an extension that was performed many years ago - where the back half of the house has had the ceilings lowered to make space for an extension on the second floor. We are concerned that this was done without the proper permissions. We were hoping to open out and modernise the back, but are now concerned as to whether we will be able to do this because of it being listed. .

If it were many years ago then permission will not apply. It's even possible that the horrendous extension was added before the listing - it's not an old process! It is a balancing trick. You really need to consult the conservation officer. Ideally if you don't want the extension there, you might need to get it condemned.

Vik wrote: »

We are just about to find a solicitor and was hoping to find someone who specialises in listed buildings, but when we get the survey done we were wondering whether its possible to go with someone who will be able to offer advice on structural work at the back, or can offer architectural services at this stage, or whether to wait until after completion for that?
I was hoping that some people had some useful comments and advice on what to do in terms of this, or on listed buildings in general?
Thanks for reading and any responses will be greatly appreciated.

You don't really need a sol that deals in listed buildings; the legals will not be far different. What you do need is an on-site chat with the conservation officer if you plan to change things around and an architect of similar that will argue for you.

When we extended our listed house, our architect purposely put forward a two storey extension when we only wnated one - great if we got it but ultimately it is down to compromise - the higher you aim, the closer the compromise will be to your real goal.

Listed building and a repo not an ideal combination but it's unlikely anyone would be able to move quicker than you. I'd formally ask for a little longer, taking into account the listing and associated admin.

Good Luck