HSBC Business Account

RandomCake

I have a HSBC business account, I run a very small business selling web hosting as well as the odd bit of web design, I'm only 21 and currently a fll time student, if I'd realised the charges were structured differently for business accounts I would definately have used my personal account! But anyway, HSBC have charged me in total around £300 for having an unauthorised overdraft, or as they now call the charges 'overdraft arrangement fees', bellow are my accounts transactions since the 12th of July, in addition to the current balance I have been informed by HSBC that there are a further £120 or so charges waiting to be applied!

<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cols="9" frame="void" rules="none"> <colgroup><col width="86"><col width="86"><col width="86"><col width="86"><col width="86"><col width="86"><col width="86"><col width="86"><col width="86"></colgroup> <tbody> <tr> <td sdval="39387" sdnum="2057;0;DD/MM/YY" align="left" height="47" width="86">01/11/07</td> <td align="left" width="86"> </td> <td align="left" width="86">Balance Carried Forward</td> <td align="right" width="86"> </td> <td align="left" width="86"> </td> <td align="right" width="86"> </td> <td align="left" width="86"> </td> <td align="right" width="86">180.70 </td> <td align="left" width="86">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="62">27 Oct 2007 </td> <td align="left">DR </td> <td align="left">TOTAL CHARGES TO 05OCT2007 </td> <td sdval="48" sdnum="2057;" align="right">48</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">180.70 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="47">27 Oct 2007 </td> <td align="left">DR </td> <td align="left">INTEREST TO 05OCT2007 </td> <td sdval="0.65" sdnum="2057;" align="right">0.65</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">132.70 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="17">12 Oct 2007 </td> <td align="left">DD </td> <td align="left">phone bill </td> <td sdval="30.64" sdnum="2057;" align="right">30.64</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">132.05 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="62">06 Oct 2007 </td> <td align="left">CR </td> <td align="left">NET INTEREST TO 05OCT2007 </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="0.01" sdnum="2057;" align="right">0.01</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">101.41 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="32">03 Oct 2007 </td> <td align="left">CR </td> <td align="left">hosting </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="1" sdnum="2057;" align="right">1</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">101.42 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="32">03 Oct 2007 </td> <td align="left">CR </td> <td align="left">hosting </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="5" sdnum="2057;" align="right">5</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">102.42 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="32">03 Oct 2007 </td> <td align="left">CR </td> <td align="left">hosting </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="3" sdnum="2057;" align="right">3</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">107.42 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="62">28 Sep 2007 </td> <td align="left">DD </td> <td align="left">PAYPAL PAYMENT FIRST PAYMENT </td> <td sdval="16.98" sdnum="2057;" align="right">16.98</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">110.42 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="62">27 Sep 2007 </td> <td align="left">DR </td> <td align="left">TOTAL CHARGES TO 05SEP2007 </td> <td sdval="96" sdnum="2057;" align="right">96</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">93.44 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="47">27 Sep 2007 </td> <td align="left">DR </td> <td align="left">INTEREST TO 05SEP2007 </td> <td sdval="0.56" sdnum="2057;" align="right">0.56</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">2.56 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="17">12 Sep 2007 </td> <td align="left">DD </td> <td align="left">phone bill </td> <td sdval="32.49" sdnum="2057;" align="right">32.49</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">3.12 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="47">11 Sep 2007 </td> <td align="left">BP </td> <td align="left"> TRANSFER </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="20" sdnum="2057;" align="right">20</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">35.61 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="62">06 Sep 2007 </td> <td align="left">CR </td> <td align="left">NET INTEREST TO 05SEP2007 </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="0.02" sdnum="2057;" align="right">0.02</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">15.61 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="32">05 Sep 2007 </td> <td align="left">CR </td> <td align="left">hosting </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="1" sdnum="2057;" align="right">1</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">15.59 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="32">05 Sep 2007 </td> <td align="left">CR </td> <td align="left">hosting </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="5" sdnum="2057;" align="right">5</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">14.59 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="32">05 Sep 2007 </td> <td align="left">CR </td> <td align="left">hosting </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="3" sdnum="2057;" align="right">3</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">9.59 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="62">27 Aug 2007 </td> <td align="left">DR </td> <td align="left">TOTAL CHARGES TO 05AUG2007 </td> <td sdval="24" sdnum="2057;" align="right">24</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">6.59 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="47">27 Aug 2007 </td> <td align="left">DR </td> <td align="left">INTEREST TO 05AUG2007 </td> <td sdval="0.46" sdnum="2057;" align="right">0.46</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">30.59 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="47">22 Aug 2007 </td> <td align="left">BP </td> <td align="left"> TRANSFER </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="40" sdnum="2057;" align="right">40</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">31.05 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="17">17 Aug 2007 </td> <td align="left">PIM </td> <td align="left">PAID IN</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="80" sdnum="2057;" align="right">80</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">8.95 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="17">13 Aug 2007 </td> <td align="left">DD </td> <td align="left">phone bill </td> <td sdval="30" sdnum="2057;" align="right">30</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">88.95 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="32">08 Aug 2007 </td> <td align="left">CR </td> <td align="left">hosting </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="1" sdnum="2057;" align="right">1</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">58.95 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="62">06 Aug 2007 </td> <td align="left">CR </td> <td align="left">NET INTEREST TO 05AUG2007 </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="0.1" sdnum="2057;" align="right">0.1</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">59.95 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="32">03 Aug 2007 </td> <td align="left">CR </td> <td align="left">hosting </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="5" sdnum="2057;" align="right">5</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">60.05 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="32">03 Aug 2007 </td> <td align="left">CR </td> <td align="left">hosting </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="3" sdnum="2057;" align="right">3</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">65.05 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="62">27 Jul 2007 </td> <td align="left">DR </td> <td align="left">TOTAL CHARGES TO 05JUL2007 </td> <td sdval="80" sdnum="2057;" align="right">80</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">68.05 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="47">27 Jul 2007 </td> <td align="left">DR </td> <td align="left">INTEREST TO 05JUL2007 </td> <td sdval="0.23" sdnum="2057;" align="right">0.23</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">11.95 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="17">25 Jul 2007 </td> <td align="left">CR </td> <td align="left">PAID IN</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td sdval="30" sdnum="2057;" align="right">30</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">12.18 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="32">20 Jul 2007 </td> <td align="left">SO </td> <td align="left">Credit Card Payment</td> <td sdval="20" sdnum="2057;" align="right">20</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">17.82 </td> <td align="left">D</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="32">16 Jul 2007 </td> <td align="left">BP </td> <td align="left">Credit Card Payment</td> <td sdval="40" sdnum="2057;" align="right">40</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">2.18 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="62">13 Jul 2007 </td> <td align="left">MAE </td> <td align="left">Shopping </td> <td sdval="17.29" sdnum="2057;" align="right">17.29</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">42.18 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" height="17">13 Jul 2007 </td> <td align="left">DD </td> <td align="left">phone bill</td> <td sdval="30.4" sdnum="2057;" align="right">30.4</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">59.47 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td sdval="39275" sdnum="2057;0;DD/MM/YY" align="left" height="47">12/07/07</td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="left">Balance Brought Forward</td> <td align="right"> </td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right"> </td> <td align="left"> </td> <td align="right">89.87 </td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Are these charges illegal? I have struggled to raise the money just to get the account back to £0.00 before they've slapped another huge round of charges on me I've had enough of paying the vast majority of my small income on these charges, do business bank charges still have the same laws apply to them as personal charges? Has anyone had any luck reclaiming them either directly from the bank or through the courts? I know generally the test case would put any proceedings on hold, but this can't wait a year...

Thanks for any advice anyone can offer

olly300

You need to do some research on this board as you cannot use the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations Act to take Natwest to court. You can use Unfair Contract Terms Act to take them to court and you must be able to argue why the fees are unfair i.e. the level of charges are out of proportion to the amount you are overdrawn by. See here:
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1074405689&r.s=sl

dizzie

Hi Olly,

My advice is this:

(i) First check all the paperwork you've been sent from HSBC and look for details of fees. See if the fees you've been charged are in line with this.

(ii) Speak with your branch manager. You may actually need to go into the branch to do this, since they don't give out branch telephone numbers any more (and if you call the callcentre, you'll end up speaking to someone with absolutely no authority, half way round the world). If the fees are not as detailed in their literature, then point this out. If they are buried there somewhere, you cant use that one, but take in your statement and discuss the fees that you've been changed, explaining that you are a new business customer and fel that the charges are (and they definitely are) unreasonable given the amounts/periods you were in debit for. See if they will reduce/cancel these as a goodwill gesture.

(iii) Remember that operating as a business in contracts with other businesses is completely different from being an ordinary consumer. You don't have the same protection and I'm afraid that some big companies see small businesses as fair game to extort as much money as possible from. ALWAYS READ EVERYTHING - TWICE before signing any contract. Look for those outrageous charges or those completely biased contract clauses designed to put you between a rock and a hard place. Have had my fingers burnt once or twice and have learnt this expensive lesson.

We had an HSBC business account. We always paid fees, but the bank (and they are not the only bank at this game) got greedy and increased these massively. First we knew was when these appeared on our statement. Apparently HSBC had sent a circular but we never got ours, so I complained to the branch manager and he refunded fees for that month as a gesture of goodwill (Although I didn't tell him at the time that I wasn't going to accept these fees thereafter and was already applying to move our account to A&L free business banking)

Good luck with this one Olly

dizzie

Hi Olly,

My advice is this:

(i) First check all the paperwork you've been sent from HSBC and look for details of fees. See if the fees you've been charged are in line with this.

(ii) Speak with your branch manager. You may actually need to go into the branch to do this, since they don't give out branch telephone numbers any more (and if you call the callcentre, you'll end up speaking to someone with absolutely no authority, half way round the world). If the fees are not as detailed in their literature, then point this out. If they are buried there somewhere, you cant use that one, but take in your statement and discuss the fees that you've been changed, explaining that you are a new business customer and fel that the charges are (and they definitely are) unreasonable given the amounts/periods you were in debit for. See if they will reduce/cancel these as a goodwill gesture.

(iii) Remember that operating as a business in contracts with other businesses is completely different from being an ordinary consumer. You don't have the same protection and I'm afraid that some big companies see small businesses as fair game to extort as much money as possible from. ALWAYS READ EVERYTHING - TWICE before signing any contract. Look for those outrageous charges or those completely biased contract clauses designed to put you between a rock and a hard place. Have had my fingers burnt once or twice and have learnt this expensive lesson.

We had an HSBC business account. We always paid fees, but the bank (and they are not the only bank at this game) got greedy and increased these massively. First we knew was when these appeared on our statement. Apparently HSBC had sent a circular but we never got ours, so I complained to the branch manager and he refunded fees for that month as a gesture of goodwill (Although I didn't tell him at the time that I wasn't going to accept these fees thereafter and was already applying to move our account to A&L free business banking)

Good luck with this one Olly

dizzie

Oops must have pressed the button twice - sorry for repeating myself!

dizzie

...and it wasn't Olly - it was Random Cake - sorry again. Well that's why I'm called dizzie!

kitchen_buff

I have a business account with HSBC. I signed up in March 07. got eighteen months free banking. I was sent a set of costs for when I do start paying fees, this is done automatically, so I do not think you have any recourse. You might need to just pay up and move accounts, there are other companies offering free business banking, I.E Natwest, alliance leicester.
To cut my future charges I use HSBC internet banking (BIB) it is great.

dizzie

In response to kitchen buff - he/she is right - if it's there in black and white, you have no legal recourse.

But bank managers do have the authority to waive/reduce fees as a goodwill gesture...so what you want to do if you go into the branch is make the manager think is "Here is a new businessman/woman, currently studying but with every intention of /and definite potential to develop his business in the future. He'd like to build up a good long-term business relationship with a big name bank like HSBC...in which case we will make plenty out of him in the future....So for now as a goodwill gesture, we can do something about those very heafty fees..."