BT Pension - Increased Transfer Values

Suffolk_lass

When my father took his BT Pension early (under the original scheme to which you have reserved rights, I am guessing), he was able to buy out the actuarial reduction in part with the redundancy lump sum he was paid.

I don't know if this remains an option for you but it was good way of boosting the money he would have had access to had he gone on a straight actuarial reduction basis.

DK68

There are many people to Buddy up with for Transfers ..


However first we must break through the deliberate Communication Blackout by BTPS and the CWU.


We already know that C Member XFER values have a premium due to RPI (a big positive influence that is scandalously being taken to Supreme Court so is at RISK).


We have not been told what made the Values suddenly rise though .. Most people only saw this on the Portal in Feb / Mar 2019.



At the Closure the early access penalties were reduced for at least 12 months (end of May 2019) .. so how can this be the Driver ?


Also the Regulator has BASE rules on how transfer Values are calculated .. so this or the above or both could be the driver.
Members need to know as the Values could drop again by July 2019.


Appalling Administration of the mother of UK Pensions.
Xfer Out (buddy or single) being the route to nullify the Agreement breaking Offset Acceleration and Closed Pension ties to Employment loss and BTRSS..

Albermarle

However, I just received a transfer out quote from the portal and the figure is coming out almost 28 times my annual pension (£15,819) at £441,580.

In fact x28 is not so unusual for a CETV from a DB scheme. Even up to 40X is not unheard of, especially if the DB scheme is RPI linked and >50% spousal benefit.
Although it looks a lot, especially as it has unexpectedly increased, I suggest the OP reads some of the many many threads on this forum on the subject of transferring out of a DB scheme. Mainly ( but not all) negative on the idea and detailing the cost and hassle of finding an IFA to advise on any move.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5994034/true-potential-good-idea-or-not
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5990401/transfer-out-or-guaranteed-benefits
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5986362/pension-transfer-fee

fwor

DK68 wrote: »

Xfer Out (buddy or single) being the route to nullify the Agreement breaking Offset Acceleration and Closed Pension ties to Employment loss and BTRSS.

Uh?

You seem to spend a lot of time writing posts about the BT pension scheme, so please can I make a request?

Please can you spend a bit of time reading your text before you post it, to check that it is readable?

I simply cannot understand most of what you post.

DK68

Dont worry -



BT People will ...


Transfer Values are impoved massively from Dec 2018.


Why RPI Final salary Pension Values had rubbish 20 multiples in 2018, is for Willis Towers Watson to explain.

State Pension Offset (Bridging) was accelerated in 2016 and these Reduce Pensions and Pension Values.
RPI inflation is contained in the C Section Values.
Buddy Transfers allow people to access Pension with age protections (age 50 -54) so long as you change employment.
Single Transfers allow people to break the link between accessing the BTPS Pension and loss of Employment from age 55 and above , with immediate tax free access to 25% of the CETV and continuing in the new BTRSS Scheme (full tax reliefs continue) and BT or OR ltd Employment can continue.


BTPS is complicated and linked to the SP and has rather a large and varying Deficit between March 2018 and March 2019. Deficit (liabilities) is of course , the other side of the same coin - to Value.


Artificial or accidental Pension Deficit Reductions will not be allowed to reduce Pension Values , no matter what experimental calculations and Assumption Errors the Actuary makes. See March 2018 IAS Deficit reduction and Closure Deficit / Values 'magic'.

All undone by December 2018.


RPI in C Scheme is now set to go to Supreme Court as it contains £2000 million of Pesnioner Values or Scheme Liability.

You now understand the two sides of the Coin ?



£2900 million of Pension Values were lost in 2010 for B Members , when Inflation started to be Gamed by the UK Government. As the Scheme has links back in the day to the Civil Service , the Scheme could change the Inflation rate and join in the Government gaming of Inflation , against peoples living Standards.

An unforgivable UK wide Enginnereed loss of living standards protection , felt most acutely in the decade long abused Public Sector pay squeeze , that was a lot lower than even the rigged CPI !


Now do we value our Nurses ?


What if they go to work on the Train ?
What if they pay Council Tax ?
What if they use Water ?

learn your Carli from your Jevons (Means) and please ...dont fall for CPI OR CPIH or RPIJ ...


The original poster is wise to be wary and needs to keep an eye (portal) on the Value Monthly , the RPI Court proceedings and the Offset , which have material impacts on Pension Values.


2018 was not victimless as people Transfered out with 20 multiples ..



Whilst people keep an eye on Interest Rates and Offsets and Inflation Rates in the rules , they will be in control and have the option of Transferring Out to avoid linked loss of Employment. The main driver of Transfer Out Interest is in this case, Linking Closed Pension Access to loss of Employment.


Do keep up ....

hyubh

DK68 wrote: »

An unforgivable UK wide Enginnereed loss of living standards protection , felt most acutely in the decade long abused Public Sector pay squeeze , that was sub rigged CPI even !

And yet, statutory revaluation and increases for public sector schemes is superior to the statutory minimum for private schemes (revaluation isn't capped, and excess increases apply across all tranches equally and, again, are uncapped).

DK68

the Nurse gets little re-assurance or comfort from being able to live when they retire ... but not whilst on Pay that is designed to lose value each year through Inflation. Twenty years does a lot of damage and we have had 10 sub rigged CPI years already (20% loss ?).



See the Number of under 35 NHS people leaving their Pensions , just because they cant afford the increased payments into it eating even more take home pay.. ... no wonder there are 40,000 vacancies.


There has been an economic meltdown where Govt has helped Corporates slash their tax and slash pay and Pension costs. It all seems a bit one way.

hyubh

DK68 wrote: »

the Nurse gets little re-assurance or comfort from being able to live when they retire ... but not whilst on Pay that is designed to lose value each year through Inflation. Twenty years does a lot of damage and we have had 10 sub rigged CPI years already (20% loss ?).



See the Number of under 35 NHS people leaving their Pensions , just because they cant afford the increased payments into it eating even more take home pay.. ... no wonder there are 40,000 vacancies.


There has been an economic meltdown where Govt has helped Corporates slash their tax and slash pay and Pension costs. It all seems a bit one way.

Let's not derail the thread, hey? There are various aspects that make the larger parts of the BT scheme quasi-public sector in nature, but transfer values (the topic of this thread) isn't one of them.

Johnnyboy11

hyubh wrote: »

Let's not derail the thread, hey? There are various aspects that make the larger parts of the BT scheme quasi-public sector in nature, but transfer values (the topic of this thread) isn't one of them.

I think the point was relevant, since any transfer value must take account of the likely future value of the GBP, which has lost about 36% of its value since the 2008 crash.

DK68

Transfer Values are all many BTPS people have as an option , if they do not want to be forced into impoverishment from age 57.


Many have mortgages and teenagers at home ... yet THIS SCHEME linked loss of Employment to Closed Pension Access.



Accessing the Pension should have been like the relief of a besieged City , Families desperate for more Income due to real earnings losses over the long term.


Paying more income tax to help the country , yet this Scheme encourages HMRC tax decimation from these peoples incomes, aided and abetted not least by HMRC's own rediculous exploited rules in the age 50 - 54 cohort.

HMRC and DWP encourages the qualification for Working and Child Tax credits in its PTM rules , when one parent is forced to leave work on a poverty pension and the other continues to work. Reducing paid household income to £20k a year in some families , decimating tax take and bringing UC qualification.


That is how 'dumb' our State has become as Corporations run rings around it. So change the PTM.



For age 55 and above the loss of Employment Conditions is ALL the Scheme's own new rule.
So change the Law.



Hence the importance of the very strange, but welcome late in the day Transfer Value corrections , seen in December 2018. It allows the Pension Member a response (option) to the Closure Engineering that went on in 2018.