PCN from Horizon Parking

Hama

Hi everyone,
This forum is full of valuable advice and I am hoping I could tap into this great resource and get some help with a PCN i received.

The driver parked at a car park in Southall which happens to be owned by Quality Foods, but their neighbour Iceland also lets its customers park there. The driver popped into Iceland but after around 11 mins, couldn't find what they wanted so they left. only to find they have been given a PCN. The driver had displayed a blue badge and (wrongfully) assumed it was free for disabled customers.
Moreover, their English is very limited.

I have spend hours reading through this forum (including the Newbies Thread) and i must say i am overwhelmed with all the info and worried i might trip up if i do go through an appeal and make a mistake.

the PCN came through the post which has pics of the car.

I am right in assuming that the driver should first write to Hozion with the template below. wait for them to refuse it, then appeal to popla?

is popla pretty much guaranteed to decide in my favour? i am worried about missing the 14 day reduced charge period and end up paying the full amount.

any help is appreciated and thanks in advance.

Hama

This is the template i am refering to which i got from the newbies thread:



Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,

getmore4less

With Horizon check POFA 2012 compliance.

Unless something has changed(I don't hang out here every day)

I would beef up the no admissions to

"There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge"

Castle

Hama
Edit your first post to remove the identity of the driver. (It always the "driver" who parked).

Hama

thanks guys, just before it's sent, how does this look:

Re PCN number: XXXXXXXXXXX

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP. I would like to add that the driver is a physically disabled person with a limited understand of English. The driver on this occasion went into your clients shop to enquire about whether or not disabled customers had to pay or not. Given that the driver is a disabled person and walks on crutches, they will have taken significantly longer than your average person. Therefore I do not agree that the same grace period as other customers should be given.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,

KeithP

Hama, my suggestion is that the keeper, not the driver as you mention, should send the blue template appeal found in post #1 of the NEWBIES thread.

It should be sent without change - no additions or alterations are necessary.

It sends a subliminal message to the PPC that the appellant has the support of MSE forums and this may be a difficult case and not worth pursuing.

But it's entirely your choice.

Fruitcake

I agree with Keith. In my opinion the keeper should send the initial appeal template from the NEWBIES exactly as it is, unedited.

The time to mention the driver needing extra time is at PoPLA.

Hama

Thanks everyone.
Appeal sent. I will await and see what they say. If they cancel it, then all well and good.
but if they don't, should I definitely consider PoPLA or does that depend on my strength of evidence?

I have read on these forums (although i haven't read enough i must admit), is it the case that PoPLA aren't how they used to be and they are starting to make decision in favour of the PPCs?

KeithP

If your initial appeal is denied, you should certainly appeal to PoPLA.

Why would you not appeal to PoPLA?

A negative PoPLA appeal is not binding on the motorist so you have absolutely nothing to lose by appealing to poPLA.

My suggestion would be to start gathering evidence for your PoPLA appeal now.

Hama

Thanks for that Keith.

When you say evidence, are you refering to things like receipts etc.
if so, No receipts are available. the occupant popped in, then came back out again after around 10 mins. without buying anything. so no receipts.

or are you refering to things like size of lettering on sign? so should driver go take pics etc...?

Also, when you say nothing to lose by replying to PoPLA, will I not lose the discount simply by appealing?

please excuse my ignorance. I am new to this and I wanna learn as much as I can, cos I've had enough of these charges.

Fruitcake

Edit your post above to remove information about who did what!

An occupant of the car popped in.

Get pics of signage.

Forget the discount for mugs. You want the MSE 100% discount.