Civil enforcement ltd PCN

Jemm1990

Hi,

I received a parking charge notice today from CEL for parking at KFC in Hyde for 18 mins around 9am at the end of November. This is a free car park between 10am and 10pm and no parking allowed at any other time, according to the letter I’ve received and so the car was obviously parked where it shouldn’t have been.
I was going to ignore the letter with it being a private company but I’ve looked around the forum and other sites and it seems the law has changed round this and the advice is now not to ignore? I’m just wondering if I have to pay, the letter doesn't make any mention of 'keeper', only says the driver must pay but details of driver must be given if that isn't me.
Jade

Redx

read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread , third thread down from the top of this forum and appeal as KEEPER (no blabbing about who was driving - so edit your post above and put what the DRIVER did , and what the KEEPER received)

use the blue text appeal to appeal it as KEEPER

not sure if there are 2 car park companies on there, SIP and CEL , so could do with pictures of signs where the driver parked so we can see the T &C,s

not sure that it is free all day on there as I know that SIP charge for there part and CEL must have times too (if it is CEL and not SIP)


only a fool ignores these pcn,s, especially since 2012


complain ASAP to KFC and insist on them cancelling it as you were a patron

Jemm1990

Hi,
Thanks for the reply. Can't complain to KFC as a patron because that wasn't the case... KFC doesn't open until 11am and was parked there at 9am, otherwise I'd say that I was a patron.
The letter says parking free for 90 mins between 10am and 10pm, no parking at any other time. The sign there says no parking when the restaurant is closed and says what the fines will be. This is a new sign though as I've parked there many times before with absolutely no issues, the previous sign just said patrons only but that was KFC's own sign, there was never an official parking sign up until recently which is why it wasn't noticed. Just expected it to be the same as always.
There are 2 car park companies there, the main car park is a council one and has a pay and display, the KFC car park is sectioned off from the main car park and up until recently it was fine to park there. My worry is I've used that car park twice since the date on my letter so I'm potentially going to get 2 more fines and I can't afford them.
I've read the newbie post (and came away pretty confused, lots of info!) but I'm unsure if there is a point in an appeal. My PCN states if I'm not the driver then I have to give the name of the driver, and I read on the parking cowboys website that the keeper is now responsible whether they were the driver or not?
Argh

Redx

ok , first a few things to mention

1) yes I believe there are 2 sections, the one on the left near Clarendon Shopping Centre which I thought was a S.I.P. private car park (since the multi storey was torn down), and the one on the right near KFC which I didnt know was now CEL but I suspect you are correct but we need pictures of the signs to confirm it

you have not posted pictures of the CEL signs near KFC but 90 minutes sounds right, so if they say it doesnt start until 1100am then its forbidding signage and there is no contract to park, so no contract exists and its effectively trespass which is nothing to do with CEL. plus GRACE PERIODS may apply as could a change in t & c,s so check the BPA CoP about changes and how to go about implementing them , so when you say "recently" , how recently ??

I thought that the part near the shopping centre was SIP and was p & d and free on sundays ? I do not believe that it is still council as I am sure it was sold off ?

yes there may be more INVOICES (not fines) in the post , so appeal each one separately, as KEEPER (the ability to pay or not is irrelevant)

appeal as keeper using the blue text template with no alterations for now

no blabbing about who was driving, so edit your posts accordingly and dont tell CEL either

KeithP

A sign that says "no parking allowed at any other time" is a forbidding sign outside the permitted hours.

In other words, at 9am that sign was incapable of being the basis of a contract, which means it was impossible for a driver to agree any terms of a contract, which in turn means that there was no contract to break.

Jemm1990

I've just taken a photo of the sign, not sure how to upload but it says: "Maximum stay 90 minutes for KFC customers only. Absolutely no parking when the restaurant is closed. If you breach any of these terms you will be charged £100. These terms apply at all times. Additional costs/recovery charges will be incurred if payment is not received within 28 days. We use manual patrols and ANPR cameras to monitor this private property and may contact the DVLA to request the registered keeper's details in order to send a parking charge notice (PCN). Data protection information is displayed at the entrance to this car park..." then gives website and address of CEL.

Redx

you can host it on tinypic , then you add the URL in your reply and edit it to hxxp from http and then hit submit

we can then fix the link ourselves for you


ps:- the NTK is an invoice , not a "fine"


we dont use the F word here as its incorrect, so which moron told you that this invoice was a fine ? (lol)

Jemm1990

Ha, incorrect word used. Oops, sorry!

I've put the link but no idea if I've done it right. But the sign says exactly what I put on the last post anyway.

[IMG]hxxp://i63.tinypic.com/wa0hdy.jpg"[/IMG]

Redx

I am sure you did but good practice for you and I wanted to see this new sign they put up, plus it would be good to know WHEN they put it up too

and the £100 doesnt shout out at you, nor the times either which are not there AT ALL, hence poor signage and the fact that it is forbidding signage so the driver did not enter into any contract at all as none was offered, no offer = no acceptance of any offer

how is anyone supposed to know when the restaurant is open or closed ?

here is the link

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=wa0hdy&s=9#.XA7fQ-LgpPY

appeal as keeper, online if possible, using the blue text template

if you get any pics of the signs on the shopping centre side, put those up too please

KeithP

Yes, a forbidding sign: