Tenant association charges

Darkred05

Hi all, not really sure where this post belongs!

I live in a leasehold flat and we have a company that takes service charges and does any work in the building.
There is a residents association (recognised) but they have nothing to do with the lease/no right to manage.

I didn't agree to any actions but the chair took the leaseholder to tribunal over costs. She is now trying to charge all of the flats for the court fees (I agree with that) but only members of the association for the work/costs of time at the tribunal. I never agreed to any of this work and never signed any contract agreeing to any action.

She is threatening to take me to court over the costs for the work as I haven't paid.
Does she have any leg to stand on?

Many thanks

jonnygee2

She is threatening to take me to court over the costs for the work as I haven't paid.

I wonder who she is planning to send the bill for that court action to when it fails?

Darkred05

I wish I knew!

All 19 flats are not part of the association.
Our service charges differ due to different flat sizes
I pay a little over 4%, others pay more or less (all set out due to lease)

If we get anything back from the management agents, it'll be by the % we pay for the charges and every flat!

She's charging us £1700 ÷ 13.
Which I believe is the amount of flats within the association. I wouldn't have such an issue with paying if it was all flats by the % we pay for service charges but just because I was in the association I have to pay for work I haven't agreed to?

Any help would be appreciated

da_rule

Do you mean she took the freeholder to the tribunal? What was the outcome, did she win?

Whilst you might not have had a contract, did the association vote in favour of the action? My understanding is, much like any other unincorporated (or potentially incorporated, depending on your associations set up) association, it’s a case of majority rules. By being a member, you are bound to the decision of the majority even if you voted against (or even if you weren’t at the meeting where the decision was made).

However, a recognised tenants association is a consultive committee only and does not have the right to take a freeholder to the tribunal in its own name. Therefore, did she have authority to act on your (or anyone else’s behalf) behalf in taking the action? You may need to review your associations constitution but such action certainly falls outside of section 29 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985.

I would write back to her, ask her to set out the legal basis for the claim she is making and take a view on her response. I would also, personally, withdraw from the association (and copy in my landlord) and make it clear that you will deal with your own lease issues. I’ve found that these associations, while often having good intentions, often aren’t worth the hassle as they are usually controlled by busy bodies etc.

Darkred05

I did ask for the legal basis and this was the reply I received. I've taken out names.
I did not agree to anything and no actual legal basis returned.
I believe we have won some monies back which will be credited to our service charge accounts.

"The agreement to pay for costs relating to the service provided to you, so that you have could receive the benefit of a credit of money through the hard work of the ****, as you are aware and agreed to, was done by a majority vote of the members.

If you do not wish to receive the credit and feel you are not entitled to it, please return it back to **** and inform them that they can divide it amongst the other leaseholders who are most appreciative of its value.

I trust you find that the above to be in order and hope you continue to support those who have stuck their neck's out mercilessly on your behalf."

chunkytfg

How much was the credit and how much is the bill? if it works in your favour pay the bill and if it works against you pay back the money.

Red-Squirrel_2

Darkred05 wrote: »

I did ask for the legal basis and this was the reply I received. I've taken out names.
I did not agree to anything and no actual legal basis returned.
I believe we have won some monies back which will be credited to our service charge accounts.

"The agreement to pay for costs relating to the service provided to you, so that you have could receive the benefit of a credit of money through the hard work of the ****, as you are aware and agreed to, was done by a majority vote of the members.

If you do not wish to receive the credit and feel you are not entitled to it, please return it back to **** and inform them that they can divide it amongst the other leaseholders who are most appreciative of its value.

I trust you find that the above to be in order and hope you continue to support those who have stuck their neck's out mercilessly on your behalf."

Sounds like they have a point.

HampshireH

How did you not participate in the vote. Your inital posts suggests you were unaware. The chairs letter is clear you were fully informed.

Which is it? These sort of meetings are usually minuted.

I too am unsure why only members have to pay the fees if you are representing the entire block.

As I would see it they either represent all of you for an outcome for all of you and therefore costs are apportioned fairly (unenforcable unless in the lease/signed up) or they act for those in the association and only those benefit - of which you all pay (the rest fight their own corner).

Seems odd to represent everyone yet charge only those on the association.

But that said I still don't understand how you weren't aware. If you were aware then you had the chance to leavw the association.

da_rule

This is getting far too confusing. OP it would be helpful if you set out exactly what happened in a timeline, rather than just drip feeding information.

Who did they take to the tribunal? Who were the named parties to the proceedings? What was the basis of the claim (unreasonable service charge etc)? What was the outcome? What are the costs being claimed from you actually for (is it just the tribunal costs or is the chairperson also trying to claim for their time)?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

My view on this, as someone who has no knowledge of OP's responsibility to the association, is management co overcharged and was taken to a tribunal who agreed a £1700 refund which is being given back to each flat based on the % they paid but association want to charge just 13 flats 1/13th each for tribunal costs.

If I was the OP, assuming they have no legal right to pay, I would first ask for a breakdown of costs.

The email OP quotes mentions the hard work of xxxx, if they were hired to represent at the tribunal fair enough, even if they are part of the association but acting in a professional capacity fair enough, or is it a case of someone from the association just getting few quid in their pocket for helping out?

There may not be a fee for someones time but the email sure reads that there is, to me at least.

I'd then send a cheque for 4% of costs that are fair, if she takes OP to court it would show OP has at least been reasonable and willing to resolve the matter. 4% of the full £1700 is £68 so a claim for the remaining £62 may not go far anyway due to it being a small amount.

That assumes OP is happy to live with the lady in charge of the association being bitter over this and the possible problems that may cause in the future. If happy to pay the £68, as OP said they was, is the the extra £62 that much to pay for an easy life (and a few quid back from the management co)?

Norman_Castle

Darkred05 wrote: »

All 19 flats are not part of the association.
Our service charges differ due to different flat sizes
I pay a little over 4%, others pay more or less (all set out due to lease)

If we get anything back from the management agents, it'll be by the % we pay for the charges and every flat!

She's charging us £1700 ÷ 13.
Which I believe is the amount of flats within the association. I wouldn't have such an issue with paying if it was all flats by the % we pay for service charges but just because I was in the association I have to pay for work Legal costs? I haven't agreed to?

If all 19 flats are benefiting from the recouped money then the cost should be covered by all 19. Have they explained why only 13 are being charged?
It would have been sensible to pay the costs before distributing the proceeds.