BW legal letter from Brittania Parking

Shutts87

I have looked on the newbies thread but I have confused myself by looking at other related threads which seem to offer different advice.

This is my situation....

I received a pcn through the post for parking in a uni car park. It is one I use regularly, the charge is from April 2018. Shortly before this time the pay and display machines changed. They used to be get a ticket on entry then pay for time used on exit. To my surprise in April this changed to a normal pay and display. I did indeed pay for a ticket. I used the new machines, the debit card machine was not working, I tried to use 2 different cards. I therefore paid with cash. The woman using the machine next to me had the same difficulties.

I didn’t think anything of it at the time so didn’t keep the parking ticket. When I received the pcn I used their online appeal system. I explained what happened. I asked for proof that their machine were working and outlined which machine I used and for the cctv footage that showed me paying.

I received a generic no template letter to my appeal.

I then ignored it, I obviously read out of date forums, I then had 2 different debt collectors firms contact me by post. I ignored these.

Today I received a letter from BW legal.

“If you fail to make payment we will seek our clients instructions to commence legal proceedings against you in the County Court upon being served with a Letter of Claim pursuant to the pre-action protocol for debt claims as contained within the civil procedure rules”

I am now confused as to my best of course of action from here?

Do I send a SAR request to brittania? Whilst sending a hold letter to bw?

Do I ignore it?

Which template letters do I need? I understand these need to be adapted and not cut and paste.

Thank you in advance!

Shutts87

Addkng reply so I get email notifications. Sorry this is my first time using the forum.

Redx

yes send a SAR to the DPO at BRIT

if this B W LEGAL letter gave you 30 days to reply and included financial forms, then issue an LBC rebuttal letter as well

if not, wait for that to happen and then issue the rebuttal

if an MCOL comes in the post, you need to defend

read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to get more advice on this, plus read some of te hundreds of other threads on this same topic, as all you need to know has already been written

ie:- its a common topic, with the same answers


ps:- there wont be any CCTV footage


you are asking for everything they have on you or your vehicle in that SAR, like PICS, DOCS, EVIDENCE etc

Shutts87

Thank you for your reply.

Why do you say they won’t have cctv covering their machines?

Redx

Shutts87 wrote: »

Thank you for your reply.

Why do you say they won’t have cctv covering their machines?

because private Parking companies monitor vehicles , not people !!

if they had faces with names attributed to them they would likely fall foul of many privacy and data protection laws

so how would they know that any person in any CCTV is you ?

do they have signs up warning that CCTV is in use under data protection rules ?

these cameras are normally ANPR cameras and they record the vehicle and its VRM , same if CCTV is used instead

ask them for CCTV footage of you in the SAR, if they have it and supply it, report them under data protection and privacy laws


it is the vehicle they have evidence on, not people, they are not an AUTHORITY like the police or council

Shutts87

That makes sense.

My grounds for appeal are based on the pay and display machine not working correctly. I paid cash as the card machine wasn’t working therefore I have no bank statement as proof.

How can they prove their machine was working?

It’s a put your reg in first style machine.

Redx

so your defence is based on frustration of contract

they would have to prove that the machine WAS WORKING at the time you tried to purchase a ticket, plus indicate how you failed to follow any plan b (like paying online or phoning them etc)

it is their job to prove their case , by proving successful transaction before and after the time on their PDT records

your WS will be signed and dated, and will say what happened on the day , your own personal "story"


this is all just "common sense" , which parking companies lack

Shutts87

My concern is this will be a ‘he says, she says’ case.

They will say the PDT was working as I was able to pay cash. They will have ‘evidence’ of the machine working, will they need to show the card element was working?

It seems like a computer error that the cash payment was then not linked to my VRN.

I did outline in my initial appeal that I was concerned it was a money making scam, card machine doesn’t work, I pay cash, have no proof (from a bank) they start this scam fine process.

I will send the SAR and hope they back off!

If not I will post their response.

Thanks again.

Redx

correct, which is why a judge will have to decide the outcome if you feel you are in the right

you will be swearing that you are telling the truth to said judge, as a witness to the events of the day

they are relying on machines that could be flawed

in future, keep your paid for tickets to avoid these hassles for say 6 months before throwing them away, like this 18 month old warning tells you

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/team-blog/2017/05/throwing-pay-display-ticket-away-use-cost-100/


it is extremely unlikely that they will "back off" , these are roboclaims

Coupon-mad

My concern is this will be a ‘he says, she says’ case.

They always are, but on this forum we still see 99% wins for the good guys & girls.

They will say the PDT was working as I was able to pay cash. They will have ‘evidence’ of the machine working, will they need to show the card element was working?

Yes - ask for that data in your SAR including failed payment records relating to your card (and to other cards, but with the data redacted). Ask for a full PDT machine report from the machine that you paid cash at, including card payments and cash, including all failures.

Nothing withheld, only partial redaction of the data that would ID a card or a full VRN.

beamerguy

Shutts87 wrote: »

That makes sense.

My grounds for appeal are based on the pay and display machine not working correctly. I paid cash as the card machine wasn’t working therefore I have no bank statement as proof.

How can they prove their machine was working?

It’s a put your reg in first style machine.

As this is ANPR, the machines will talk to the cameras.

Therefore, they will log XYZ in and XYZ out.
That will tie up with payments made in the machines so, if there is a payment surplus as in your case, Britannia will know.
What actually happened to your money ? They kept it which is fraud.

They have to prove their machine was not at fault and the only way they can do this is provide logs of the day. As they cannot be trusted, these logs must be audited by an independent.

Britannia of late seem to be suffering with faulty machines, we wonder why ?? maybe a job for HMRC