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Coupon-mad

Yes add your expenses to the list - the worst that can happen is the Judge says no to some of the costs (if you win the case) but if you don't ask, you don't get.

Don't forget this - even if the Claimant points to signs dotted about, the BPA CoP requires FULL TERMS to be visible to disabled people without them having to get out of the car.

Have you got time to get photos that prove my suspicion, that in fact the disabled bay signs only talk about displaying a Blue Badge (as per usual) and not the full terms?

If so, also include those photos and the excerpt you find from the BPA CoP that I just mentioned about sign at the disabled bays. This is all about evidence.

jungalow

Also, sorry just another quick question. If we are going to go with this defence (luckily I did add in a paragraph about blue badges in our initial defence!) should I include all of the recommended documents from the NEWBIES thread re Beavis etc. or is that all a bit irrelevant now? DO you think it would be worthwhile putting a skeleton argument in the pack to summarise everything? I'm a bit confused myself and don't want to provide either a whole host of documents which are superfluous or make it more confusing than it needs to be. So far I have the following in my list of things to include (not in any particular order yet):

1. Witness Statement - (Registered Keeper of Vehicle and Defendant)
2. Witness Statement - (Driver of Vehicle)
3. Images of General Signage
4. Images of Signage from designated Disabled bay (including image of parking bay and images taken of signs from within the vehicle)
5. Statement from BPA CoP regarding Disabled bay signage
6. Equality Act 2010 - Front cover, introduction, pg 81/82
7. Copy of Helen Dolphin v. Norwich City Council
8. Copy of Blue Badge
9. Correspondence from CEL
10. a copy of Schedule 4 of the POFA
11. a copy of Henry Greenslade's wording from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 'Understanding Keeper Liability' if defending as keeper.

Umkomaas

jungalow wrote: »

Yes thankfully I am going to go there today and take additional photographs. Do you think I need to include any letters from DWP or my Drs or should the blue badge be enough?

Thanks so much for your help.

I don’t think the Judge will be any more influenced by DWP/Drs’ letters. The parking issue centres on the Blue Badge and parking, this is not a disability case per se.

jungalow wrote: »

Also, sorry just another quick question. If we are going to go with this defence (luckily I did add in a paragraph about blue badges in our initial defence!) should I include all of the recommended documents from the NEWBIES thread re Beavis etc. or is that all a bit irrelevant now?

The defence should be relatively simple - you set out the reasons why you should not pay the charge and why the claimant has no case against you.

Detailed evidence like Beavis will come at the Witness Statement stage, but you only need to attach relevant extracts, otherwise you’ll need Pickfords to deliver it if you’re going to print out the volumes of detail from Beavis and the entire Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, for example!

jungalow

Please help!

This morning I have received the defence pack from CEL (one day before the deadline so I'm guessing they have paid the court fee and intend on coming on the 18th). There are a few things in there that have really made me doubt my defence now and I'm considering trying to settle which goes against everything I feel in the pit of my stomach but I'm just so scared that we will lose and be forced to pay. They have given us 7 days to pay £100 or else they will be adding to the £267 they are claiming as they will have to add on travel for their representative etc.

Here are the things that are worrying me:

1. They have me recorded as overstaying by 1 hr and 12 mins. I'm sure it wasn't that long but obviously it was. However, I still stand by the fact that I did NOT misuse the site. I simply used all three businesses in the manner in which they are designed to be frequented with two kids in tow and severely reduced mobility.
2. They say there are clear signs everywhere and have attached images of signs even in front of the disability bays (although the one I parked at was in front of Mc Donalds which is in a different, clearly designated area of the car park without any of these signs and just a sign which says 'designated disabled bay' and a disabled logo) So they appear prepared for if I say I was in a disabled bay.
3. They say (quite rightly) that we issued a standard defence taken from an internet template which has been adapted with our details. They say that they DID comply with schedule 4 of the POFA Act 2012. They say that we were sent a letter saying that if my husband didn't identify the driver then as registered keeper he could be held liable. Obviously we must have received this letter but I do not remember reading it and thinking it was significant after reading the forums. (This is probably me not reading it properly and being at the mercy of my brain fog).
4. They say they do hold a legitimate contract for the car park in contest to paragraph 7 of our defence and that they will bring a copy of this to court.
5. They make quite a big deal out of the fact that we have ignored all of their correspondence.

This is causing me so much stress and really affecting my health. I feel really stupid for missing these small things that seem to have in actuality been really big things I have missed and now I feel like we will definitely lose if we go to court. I really don't want to succumb to their bullying as I believe I should have been able to park there and use the businesses on site in the way that I did without being penalised even if it did take me longer than the average person.

I just need some honest advice as to whether my mistakes mean we really don't have much chance of winning and we should quit whilst we're ahead or if this is just their bullying tactics getting to me. I feel like I'm just going to lose so much sleep over this now.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated even if it isn't what I want to hear.

Many thanks


1.

Umkomaas

I'm guessing they have paid the court fee and intend on coming on the 18th

If this is worrying you, why are you guessing? Just call the court and check!

Dumping stuff on worried motorists is part of the MO, designed to intimidate and panic people into paying them.

Take a breath and get on the phone.

jungalow

Thank you, you are correct. I've just called the court and they say that there is nothing on their system YET to say that a payment was made yesterday (when the deadline was) and to call back on Mon/Tues to confirm that they didn't make the payment. I am suspicious as the witness statement pack was dated 03/04/2019 ( a day before the deadline) and wondered if it may just be another bullying tactic. Fingers crossed for Monday/Tuesday that this is the case and the whole thing has been thrown out.

In the meantime I'm still keen to iron out the other issues listed above and use the weekend to get together anything else I may need for my defence if I still stand a chance of winning this thing.

Therefore, any advice would be so gratefully received.

Thanks

Coupon-mad

Defence pack received.

Like in Lop5's thread then.

We hope you are reading all new claim threads every day like we do. Some of us read and reply to 75 -100 new posts every day.

In that thread (NO LINK GIVEN - GO READ IT) Johnersh and I have shown how to dissect the evidence trash and WS of any PPC, and that you must use it to your advantage by pulling their rubbish to pieces in your own WS and evidence!

jungalow

I'll go take a look now, thank you.

I really do appreciate all the replies I have received and apologise for being ignorant when it comes to knowing to read all these threads first etc. This is by no means an easy fight for me to take on given everything else I am dealing with at the moment but I just couldn't give in to the bullies and it is with all of your help that I have been able to fight up to this point. I really don't want to fail at the final hurdle but its all getting a bit too complicated for me to deal with given my current health and mental capabilities.

I have already submitted my WS and evidence as the deadline was the 4th April so I can't really add anything else in at this stage. It seems that I've messed up with all the POFA stuff etc. so it may be that case is dead in the water and there isn't much point in us going to prevent a defence if my errors make our defence look lacklustre.

Thanks again and apologies if I have disgruntled you.

Coupon-mad

You haven't upset me.

You sounded despondent though, and there was no need, so I give people a little nudge!

I just want you to see how to pull apart their WS, and if you've already submitted yours than you can note for the hearing what you want to say to tear the WS apart and to object to the fact that the named 'witness' won't even show up!

It seems that I've messed up with all the POFA stuff etc. so it may be that case is dead in the water and there isn't much point in us going to prevent a defence if my errors make our defence look lacklustre.

How have you messed up the POFA stuff?

You MUST go to the hearing. Two cases were lost by people this past month who (for whatever reason, running scared or didn't bother to book the day off) didn't follow our advice. Not forum-assisted cases then but sad losses nonetheless.

They also got clobbered with ALL the costs because they didn't bother to go and point out why a PPC can't add them.

By contrast, in forum-assisted defences, where people remain confident & well-prepared and go to their hearings, we still maintain a 99% win rate and have done for two years.

jungalow

Just got off the phone to the County court and they have paid the trial fee so its time to get ready for the trial date and feel 100% confident in our defence or pay their £100 last ditch settlement by tomorrow, Part of me just wants to pay the £100 because of the stress but my head is saying to fight!

The things I'm still uncertain and feeling insecure that they are going to really press home the fact that we didn't identify that I was the driver and also that we used an internet template which we adapted to suit our case. I feel really silly for ignoring the correspondence and not appealing in the first place but after contacting the businesses on site and getting such dispondent responses that it would fail and that instead, after reading forums, that we should get our day in court... I'm not seriously regretting this and questioning myself.

I am not a lawyer but am of reasonable intelligence and feel stupid that a silly mistake like me including the POFA evidence when in fact it doesn't apply to them. I should have been much more stringent in checking the documents. Its just so frustrating as I know that the well me, who isn't going through intensive monthly infusion treatment (which I am having to postpone for this court date in fact!) and isn't in constant pain, would have been on top of this and kicked their !!!!!! in court, but instead I'm totally not on my game and really vulnerable to making stupid mistakes like I have.

Now, to stop crying over split milk and work out where to go from here in preparation for the 18th.:

Here are the things that are worrying me:

1. They have me recorded as overstaying by 1 hr and 12 mins. I'm sure it wasn't that long but obviously it was. However, I still stand by the fact that I did NOT misuse the site. I simply used all three businesses in the manner in which they are designed to be frequented with two kids in tow and severely reduced mobility.
Do you think the judge will think this is a gross overstay? There are no other stores nearby, its not in a town centre etc so I can't really see how one could misuse the carpark other than by using the stores there or just sitting in your car!!)
2. They say there are clear signs everywhere and have attached images of signs even in front of the disability bays (although the one I parked at was in front of Mc Donalds which is in a different, clearly designated area of the car park without any of these signs and just a sign which says 'designated disabled bay' and a disabled logo - this is included in my evidence) So they appear prepared for if I say I was in a disabled bay.
In their defence pack that quote the BPA as saying that signs do not need to be placed directly in the position where they are parked
3. They say (quite rightly) that we issued a standard defence taken from an internet template which has been adapted with our details. They say that they DID comply with schedule 4 of the POFA Act 2012. They say that we were sent a letter saying that if my husband didn't identify the driver then as registered keeper he could be held liable. Obviously we must have received this letter but I do not remember reading it and thinking it was significant after reading the forums. (This is probably me not reading it properly and being at the mercy of my brain fog).If this is correct surely the judge will ask us why we didn't just appeal and identify me as the driver?
4. They say they do hold a legitimate contract for the car park in contest to paragraph 7 of our defence and that they will bring a copy of this to court.
5. They make quite a big deal out of the fact that we have ignored all of their correspondence. What do I say if/when the judge asks why we ignored all correspondence and didn't just appeal or identify myself as the driver?