Monneybox anyone?

Steve_GP220

As subject line - has anyone here tried Moneybox? I'm tempted - its basic but I love the round up of credit cards etc and you still get the three levels of risk to choose from - and all accessible from the nifty app on your phone. What's not to like?

Zanderman

I assume you mean Moneybox app - with one N.

There have been threads about it before - have a look at https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5605120/moneybox-app-thoughts

AnotherJoe

Steve_GP220 wrote: »

As subject line - has anyone here tried Moneybox? I'm tempted - its basic but I love the round up of credit cards etc and you still get the three levels of risk to choose from - and all accessible from the nifty app on your phone. What's not to like?

Its very expensive (proportionately),

gives you the impression you are saving when you are actually saving token amounts,

absolves you of any responsibility for managing your financial affairs,

determines your savings by random events,

does it completely the wrong way round, you should decide how much you save first, then spend from whats left, rather than save a trivial amount of what you spend, eg if you spend £28.76 on some tat whats the relevance of saving 24p when perhaps you should have saved £29 instead ?

It will likely be counterproductive, giving you a little feel good factor when you buy that tat because you fool yourself you are saving when you spend, an absurd proposition, rather than examine just why you are buying that tat in the first place, or realising you cant really afford it.



Determine what to save and take control.


Now, you might say "OK but even if i determine what to save, theres still the odd pennies i could add on top". To which I'll point out, each month you probably do roughly the same number of credit card transactions. Its not going to vary between 1 and a 100, more likely it will be within say 10-30. Lets say its 20. So thats on average a tenner a month. So, up your saving by that tenner, forget this and save the (from memory) 10% fee, eg £1, they charge you.

scaredofdebt

It works for me, but only as a way of saving relatively trivial amounts.

I like the fact that you can't easily get the money back out, so I am able to save over a longer period of time and therefore build up a worthwhile amount that I otherwise wouldn't. When I used Chip for example, I was forever taking my savings back out at the end of the month when money was getting tight before pay day, that's a pro and a con of course, depends on your circumstances.

So yes, it's good as a subsiduary/extra way of saving, most of my saving effort is through regular share purchase (Halifax Share Builder), traditional regular savings account etc

But it's a nice little additional pot for longer term "rainy day" saving.

Steve_GP220

Good, explicit response this, so thank you. Please let me cover each point one at a time;

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Its very expensive (proportionately),



I DID GET THE IMPRESSION FROM OTHERS THAT THIS COULD BE EXPENSIVE - BUT, MAYBE I GOT IT WRONG THAT IT WORKED OUT PROPORTIONATELY LESS IF YOU PUT MORE IN.


gives you the impression you are saving when you are actually saving token amounts,



FROM THIS I ASSUME YOU MEAN FROM THE ROUND UP. I THOUGHT THAT WAS JUST A CLEVER LITTLE EXTRA, BUT I AM WORKING ON PUTTING LARGER AMOUNT IN. I'VE OPENED WITH £1k AND DOING PAYDAY TOP UPS OF £500 PLUS MONTHLY AND JUST GIVING IT A GO FOR A COUPLE TO 5 YEARS OR SO, SEE WHAT HAPPENS.


absolves you of any responsibility for managing your financial affairs,


I THINK I CAN LIVE WITH GIVING THE RESPONSIBILITY TO OTHERS. BUT ISNT THAT WHAT ANY OF US DOES WITH ANY SAVINGS, STOCKS AND SHARES, ISAs ETC - GIVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO OTHERS TO MAKE THE INVESTMENTS ETC? I'M SURE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS BUT THE MAJORITY OF SAVERS, OR THOSE WHO WANT TO MAKE MONEY ARE NOT TOTALLY FINANCE SAVVY OR CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO DABBLE IN THE MARKETS THEMSELVES?


determines your savings by random events,



AGAIN, ISN'T THIS WHAT ALL INVESTMENTS AND SAVINGS DOES?


does it completely the wrong way round, you should decide how much you save first, then spend from whats left, rather than save a trivial amount of what you spend, eg if you spend £28.76 on some tat whats the relevance of saving 24p when perhaps you should have saved £29 instead ?


I JUST THOUGHT THE ROUND UP WAS A CLEVER THING THAT WOULD APPEAL TO THE YOUNGER SAVER TO BE HONEST. MAKING PEOPLE LOOK AT THEIR CASH AND WHATS POSSIBLE BE SEEN IN A DIFFERENT LIGHT - AND THOSE ROUND UPS COULD PAY THE CHARGES AT THE END OF THE DAY, DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH CARDS AND ACCOUNTS ARE USED.


It will likely be counterproductive, giving you a little feel good factor when you buy that tat because you fool yourself you are saving when you spend, an absurd proposition, rather than examine just why you are buying that tat in the first place, or realising you cant really afford it.


YOU DON'T SEEM TO LIKE THE ROUND UP FEATURE? FAIR ENOUGH, TURN IT OFF. ITS COMPLETELY IN THE ACCOUNT HOLDER'S HANDS. BUT I WOULDN'T BY 'TAT' SIMPLY TO SAVE A FEW QUID. MOST OF MY SPENDING GOES THROUGH CREDIT CARDS, DEBIT CARDS AND DD, SO MY MARK UPS PER MONTH WILL BE QUITE SIGNIFICANT AND LIKE I SAID, THESE COULD PAY MY COSTS ON THIS ACCOUNT IN THE END. I'VE NEVER SPENT FOR THE SAKE OF IT.


Determine what to save and take control.


AGAIN I'D ONLY PUT IN WHAT I WANT TO PUT IN.


Now, you might say "OK but even if i determine what to save, theres still the odd pennies i could add on top". To which I'll point out, each month you probably do roughly the same number of credit card transactions. Its not going to vary between 1 and a 100, more likely it will be within say 10-30. Lets say its 20. So thats on average a tenner a month. So, up your saving by that tenner, forget this and save the (from memory) 10% fee, eg £1, they charge you.


I HEAR THIS. I'LL LET THE ACCOUNT RUN FOR A WHILE, SEE HOW THE CHARGES STACK UP, AND THEN TAKE A VIEW. IF I NEED TO CLOSE THE ACCOUNT I WILL, OTHERWISE, I'LL JUST LET IT TICK OVER.

Once again thanks for your response.

Steve_GP220

Yeah I think it will work for me as well - at least until I see how the charges stack up.

scaredofdebt wrote: »

It works for me, but only as a way of saving relatively trivial amounts.

I like the fact that you can't easily get the money back out, so I am able to save over a longer period of time and therefore build up a worthwhile amount that I otherwise wouldn't. When I used Chip for example, I was forever taking my savings back out at the end of the month when money was getting tight before pay day, that's a pro and a con of course, depends on your circumstances.
THIS FOR ME IS KEY. I WANT TO SAVE LONG TERM WITHOUT DIPPING IN AND OUT.


So yes, it's good as a subsiduary/extra way of saving, most of my saving effort is through regular share purchase (Halifax Share Builder), traditional regular savings account etc

But it's a nice little additional pot for longer term "rainy day" saving.
THIS IS IS - 'RAINY DAY FUND' OVER A LONGER PERIOD

masonic

I HEAR THIS. I'LL LET THE ACCOUNT RUN FOR A WHILE, SEE HOW THE CHARGES STACK UP, AND THEN TAKE A VIEW. IF I NEED TO CLOSE THE ACCOUNT I WILL, OTHERWISE, I'LL JUST LET IT TICK OVER.

There is no need to research what the charges are, they are published quite clearly:
"With Moneybox you'll pay a £1 a month fee (although this is waived for three months), a 0.45% platform fee and fund fees ranging from 0.22% to 0.24%."
That works out at 0.7% for a largish balance (£70 per year per £10,000 invested) and is about double the charges of Vanguard Investor holding one of their LifeStrategy funds. Providing you can invest £100 per month, or £500 ad hoc, Moneybox is a poor value product.

You should, of course, hold 3-6 months worth of living expenses in a cash account before investing, so 'saving the pennies' into a cash account would be more sensible than a long term investment option like this.

jimjames

Steve_GP220 wrote: »

determines your savings by random events,

AGAIN, ISN'T THIS WHAT ALL INVESTMENTS AND SAVINGS DOES?.

I really don't think so. Normally you'd plan to make savings or investments by an amount per month. This doesn't do that, it will be based on random amounts left over if I understand correctly. So that is quite different to actively choosing to save an amount.

Steve_GP220

masonic wrote: »

There is no need to research what the charges are, they are published quite clearly:
"With Moneybox you'll pay a £1 a month fee (although this is waived for three months), a 0.45% platform fee and fund fees ranging from 0.22% to 0.24%."
That works out at 0.7% for a largish balance (£70 per year per £10,000 invested) and is about double the charges of Vanguard Investor holding one of their LifeStrategy funds. Providing you can invest £100 per month, or £500 ad hoc, Moneybox is a poor value product.

You should, of course, hold 3-6 months worth of living expenses in a cash account before investing, so 'saving the pennies' into a cash account would be more sensible than a long term investment option like this.

I think I must be missing something here. I didn't say I need to research the charges - just that I would see how they stack up - and that depends largely on how much is in the fund. I should add quickly that I am no spring chicken and realise that I have to live whilst I save - what I put into this or any fund, I can afford to. I hear what you're saying about the pennies - and that is something, an option that can be switched off easily within the app. As far as I can see so far, the only downside of Moneybox are the charges involved. And like I say - I can take a view on that any time.

jimjames wrote: »

I really don't think so. Normally you'd plan to make savings or investments by an amount per month. This doesn't do that, it will be based on random amounts left over if I understand correctly. So that is quite different to actively choosing to save an amount.

Actually, I don't think you are getting this. The 'random amounts left over' are simply an option within the app to round up amounts spent on a credit card for instance, or from a current account direct debits. In my case the actual regular savings will be put in via the Payday Boost (monthly), and One Off payments into the fund from time to time. In my case I will actually be choosing to save a minimum amount - the round up feature is just what the poster above said, the pennies. That may be switched off if I think its not worth it.

masonic

Steve_GP220 wrote: »

I think I must be missing something here. I didn't say I need to research the charges - just that I would see how they stack up - and that depends largely on how much is in the fund. I should add quickly that I am no spring chicken and realise that I have to live whilst I save - what I put into this or any fund, I can afford to. I hear what you're saying about the pennies - and that is something, an option that can be switched off easily within the app. As far as I can see so far, the only downside of Moneybox are the charges involved. And like I say - I can take a view on that any time.

Most rational people don't respond to the possibility something might be expensive by seeing how the charges stack up, and then in hindsight deciding if they were throwing their money away. They work out what the charges are going to be in advance and then decide if they will get enough value for money to justify those costs. You seem to be intending to perform an experiment where you monitor the charges you incur in order to work out whether they are worth paying, but by that point it's too late to avoid paying them and going with a cheaper option.

At the end of the day if you can only afford to invest £5 here and £10 there, then Moneybox might be your only option, but if that's the case then is this really money you can afford to lose?

Another downside of Moneybox, which I don't think anyone has mentioned yet, is that it is a loss-making business. It's last filed accounts show a loss of £942,572, meaning they are losing about £10 per year per customer.

Steve_GP220

Yeah, I wouldn't bother opening an account just for the "£5 here, £10 there" to be honest. You'll see from my posts above that my amounts will be regular. And sure I'm going to open an account and see how it goes. Not everyone wants to or needs to forensically examine the percentages. And regarding Moneybox being a loss making business - that's MB not the companies that monies are invested with, surely? Even if MB vanishes the funds are protected up to £50k, no? I'm sure you've succeeded in scaring the c*** out of people who have accounts though. Well done!



I never quite get the 'negativity' that's peddled on forums like this. And I think primarily MB was a start up aimed at young people and getting them into the investing mindset, which can only be a good thing.