HX Car Park Managment - Gladstones - Parking Fine - County Court Claim Form Received

Theopop

Hi guys, please don't shout at me. I have to submit my defence by 4pm tomorrow and am just submitting my draft defence for you to look at. I've spent most of the day on it and can spend all night and day tomorrow if I need to. As stated in previous posts I have ADHD inattentive. I attempted to find related posts over and over and nothing seemed to be making sense to me. I really struggled. It always seems I leave things until the day before and then all of a sudden, with pressure of a deadline, everything makes sense and I am finally able to submit. Again, please don't judge my timings too much, it's not a choice, it's just unfortunately how my brain works.

I have used a similar defence from Bargepole as originally suggested and one which I saw people directed to many times on other posts. Please do let me know if any of it doesn't make sense or seem to link to my defence as such.

A few questions before I post the defence:

1. Happyhooker44 stated in one post:
 4th Oct 18, 7:08 PM

"The car park in question is owned by Kingsbury Tool and Jig Company 1998 Ltd., they don’t have planning permission to use the land as a car park and neither do HX Parking to erect signage and ANPR cameras. I submitted a freedom of information request to the council as I’m challenging a PCN on behalf of my wife issued in March 2018."

I have included this in my defence below, however, is this ok to do as I have not actually submitted that request myself and am relying on information from a recent post on this forum. Could I be in trouble for stating this if it is found not to be true or has since been updated, or will they just prove me wrong in the unlikely chance that they do now have permission?

2. The car park is quite small and the barrier is notoriously awkward and difficult to get through. I do struggle making the turn through the barrier to exit the car park. It often takes time to back up and retry a number of times which can also add on minutes to the stay. I don't know if this is at all relevant but do let me know if I should include it.


3. I have noticed my keeper liability notice states ‘Period of parking time’ while other people’s states ‘Entry and exit time’ using the ANPR data I assume.
Does this mean they only timed me from when I purchased a ticket rather than entered the car park as they used to, possibly due to other cases being won in this way?

Draft Defence

**DEFENCE DELETED AS UPDATED WITH NEW INFORMATION AND POSTED BELOW**

Theopop

**NEW INFO FOUND**

Ok, I found this information on a post which I think answers my confusion on one of the points of my defence.

"if the car was parked and the driver did pay for a ticket then the driver DID enter into a de facto contract, i.e. they agreed to the terms as displayed, and paid a tariff.

So, you can't then say that the signs are ''incapable of creating a contract'' at all!

What you can say, is that the signs are incapable of binding a driver to any £100 charge, because the signs at the machine only list the small tariffs and make no mention of any penalty in large lettering. Therefore the only contract agreed was to pay a tariff for actual parking time, and this was done, so any contravention is denied.

And nothing at all warns a driver, on the PDT machine screen, that their arrival time has unexpectedly been secretly logged from the time they drove in past an ANPR camera, which on busy days could easily be some 10 -15 minutes before the driver stands at the PDT machine after finding a parking space and reading the tariffs. And nor does the PDT machine itself mention £100 on the tariff list, which is a misleading omission of relevant facts, contrary to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations, which protects consumers from unfair or misleading trading practices and bans misleading omissions and aggressive sales tactics."

Theopop

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Theopop

*Removed defence draft
Updated defence below.

Theopop

I'd be grateful if somebody would comment on my draft.

Theopop

7. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.
A recent freedom of information request to the council suggests the car park in question is owned by Kingsbury Tool and Jig Company 1998 Ltd., who do not have planning permission to use the land as a car park and neither do HX Parking to erect signage and ANPR cameras.


I guess I will leave this out and provide it as evidence later, if I get the freedom of information request myself. I don't want to sign saying it is factual and true if it is not. I am tempted to leave the part about Hx in though.
I could only find info on planning permission from 1998 and then this renewal in 2004. None since and none by Hx for signage or cameras.
Lichfield Machine Tools 1990 Ltd application - Car Park 55 - 59 King Street Wigan WN1 1DY
Proposal: To continue to use land as a 39 space car park (Renewal of A/98/49696). - 2004
https://apps.wigan.gov.uk/PlanApps/PlanAppsResults.asp

KeithP

See this reply I made only yesterday on another thread:

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=75139134&postcount=18

Theopop

Thanks Keith. I couldn't find one on Wigan councils website. I have found recent business rateable value information for the car park though. No other details.
Only found a spreadsheet from 2017 showing Secure Car Parks Ltd. 04/07/2000
Hx must have taken over last year.

Theopop

Spoke to Business Rates Department at the Council.
Asked for information on who pays Business Rates for the car park.
Was told "No, I cannot give that information out due to Data Protection"
I said that it is public infomation. Was told "No, that information cannot be given out to a third party".

Theopop

A recent freedom of information request to the council suggests the car park in question is owned by Kingsbury Tool and Jig Company 1998 Ltd., who do not have planning permission to use the land as a car park and neither do HX Parking to erect signage and ANPR cameras.

I've changed it to...
7. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.
There is no data to suggest that the Claimant has applied for planning permission from the Council to erect signage and ANPR cameras on the site.

From what I have found, Lichfield Tools, a company related to Kingsbury, do have permission to use this as a car park. Although this was granted in 2004 and there is nothing showing since. Am I right in thinking this means their permission may have run out? Due to not being certain, I don't think I will include this.
I have looked at Planning Permission Data and there is nothing from HX Car Park or anything for Signage or Cameras, so I will include this information. Hope this is correct.