Income drawdown when based abroad

Essingeviken

Yes, that is a good idea. I agree with you....seems ridiculous.

dunstonh

Ask more about this so-called license issue. Ask them to point out to you where you can find the details of it that prevent them from doing this for you. Basically, throw it back at them. It sounds nonsensical to me.

I suspect it is a legacy plan that doesnt offer drawdown. And the internal Standard Life salesforce doesnt have passporting permissions. So, they cannot move it to one of their newer plans that does offer drawdown.

If the legacy plan offered drawdown, they wouldn't be asking the residency questions. However, if a new plan was required to be set up, they would ask and you cannot set up a new plan for someone resident in the EU without holding passporting permissions.

It's a guess at the issue but we know most legacy SL plans don't do drawdown (Active Money, Elevate and Wrap being the ones that do). And passporting permissions are often referred to as a license.

Essingeviken

dunstonh wrote: »

It's a guess at the issue but we know most legacy SL plans don't do drawdown (Active Money, Elevate and Wrap being the ones that do). And passporting permissions are often referred to as a license.

Thanks, you could be correct. The policy is their stakeholder bond from about 1992. To me this is all nonsense though. How can the government say you have the right to withdraw the lot as cash, but a legacy plan not allow income drawdown? Here in Sweden, income drawdown is the norm and common sense. Why is everything so incredibly complicated and illogical in the UK.

xylophone

It seems that you have a legacy policy that is not set up for drawdown.

Like others in your situation, to access drawdown you need to transfer to a product that facilitates it.

If SL can't help then you need to explore other options.

Have you tried a phone call to HL or AJ Bell?

https://www.pensionwise.gov.uk/en/living-abroad

dunstonh

The policy is their stakeholder bond from about 1992.

Check again. Stakeholder pensions were introduced in 2001. They cant do drawdown. If yours is from 1992, it cant be a stakeholder pension. If there is mention of the word "bond", then the only pension with bond in its name is a section 32 buy out bond. They cant do drawdown either.

How can the government say you have the right to withdraw the lot as cash, but a legacy plan not allow income drawdown?

Why can't a black & white TV from 1950s show ultra HD with surround sound? Same principles apply.

The Govt adjusted the rules but it is not feasible for every product to offer those changes. Where they don't, then switching to a modern product that does is the normal course of action.

Here in Sweden, income drawdown is the norm and common sense. Why is everything so incredibly complicated and illogical in the UK.

It is simple in the UK as well. What you are likely having issues over is an EU directive and Sweden is a member of the EU.

If a firm holds passporting permissions, they can retail into that EU country. If they do not, then they cannot retail into that EU country. You are asking SL to retail into Sweden. If SL dont have passporting permissions they cannot.

Essingeviken

"Check again. Stakeholder pensions were introduced in 2001. They cant do drawdown."

You are correct. I was wrong. I found my "Yearly Statement no.8 for the year ending 2010". It is a Stakeholder pension plan and I accept what you say....that it can't do income draw down.

"Why can't a black & white TV from 1950s show ultra HD with surround sound?"

Not quite certain I buy into your analogy, but if they say the product can't do it that is the end of it.

If Standard Life can't retail into Sweden to allow me to change to another product, then what are my alternatives? Can I transfer to another organisation or must I just accept an annuity or cash?

Anyhow at least I now understand. Thanks, I can see why you are aMega Magnificent Maxi-Meticulous Uber-MoneySaving Magnate :rotfl:

dunstonh

You are correct. I was wrong. I found my "Yearly Statement no.8 for the year ending 2010". It is a Stakeholder pension plan and I accept what you say....that it can't do income draw down.

A possibility that you had a personal pension in 1992 but sometime after 2001 (possibly 2002 if statement 8 was in 2010) you transferred it to a stakeholder pension.

Not quite certain I buy into your analogy, but if they say the product can't do it that is the end of it.

Financial products are like any other retail products. With old pensions they would be hard coded onto old operating systems based on rules that were applicable at the time. Stakeholder pensions started to go niche around 2005 and this accelerated quickly after 2009-2013 to today where they are hardly retailed by anyone. Drawdown was already available in 2001. However, stakeholder pensions were not built to support drawdown. So, a product, they are your black and white TV.

The providers that have these legacy plans have a choice. Spend millions of pounds on recoding obsolete software to make available functionality that most will not use. Or allow a free of charge transfer to their modern plans on the new systems which are not hard coded and can adapt to changes much more easily.

If Standard Life can't retail into Sweden to allow me to change to another product, then what are my alternatives? Can I transfer to another organisation or must I just accept an annuity or cash?

Use a provider that has passporting permissions. Such as one that focuses on expats. It will cost nothing to transfer out of the SL stakeholder into one of these modern plans.

Hopefully, someone will be along to say what providers deal with expats.

sandsy

dunstonh wrote: »

I suspect it is a legacy plan that doesnt offer drawdown. And the internal Standard Life salesforce doesnt have passporting permissions. So, they cannot move it to one of their newer plans that does offer drawdown.

If the legacy plan offered drawdown, they wouldn't be asking the residency questions. However, if a new plan was required to be set up, they would ask and you cannot set up a new plan for someone resident in the EU without holding passporting permissions.

It's a guess at the issue but we know most legacy SL plans don't do drawdown (Active Money, Elevate and Wrap being the ones that do). And passporting permissions are often referred to as a license.

But would passporting even be relevant? Aren't pensions excluded from MiFID?

dunstonh

sandsy wrote: »

But would passporting even be relevant? Aren't pensions excluded from MiFID?

My understanding is that it is when it comes to distribution to clients as passporting applies to MiFID and IMD. (some copy and past....)

If you only advise on insurance-based products, and
do not advise on investments, then you only need to
have the IMD passport, requesting an IMD services
passport to the relevant EEA State(s).

Remember that MiFID does not include all investment
products. Investments falling within MiFID include
shares and collective investment schemes but not life
policies (which fall under the scope of IMD). For more
details about MiFID investments, see chapter 13.4 and
Annex 2 table 2 of our Perimeter Guidance (PERG)
relating to MiFID https://www.fshandbook.info/FS/html/FCA/
PERG/13.


Standard Life, according to the FCA register, have passporting permissions to the following:
AUSTRIA | BELGIUM | FRANCE | GERMANY | GREECE | HUNGARY | IRELAND | ITALY | LIECHTENSTEIN | MALTA | NETHERLANDS | PORTUGAL | SPAIN |

Sweden is not on the list

simple_expat

dunstonh wrote: »

Use a provider that has pass-porting permissions. Such as one that focuses on expats. It will cost nothing to transfer out of the SL stakeholder into one of these modern plans.

Hopefully, someone will be along to say what providers deal with expats.

Passporting doesn't apply in this sense, Standard Life are able to deal with customers regardless of country of residence, but as is often the case with the big providers, they don't want the bother.

Try MyExpatSIPP as they seem to accept non-UK residents.

Briefly looking at the UK/Sweden DTA, your pension is taxable in Sweden so you should be able to get it paid free of UK tax using the DTA.