Smart Parking - Do I have grounds for appeal?

MetricFT

Hi,

I'm looking for some assistance on whether or not I have any real grounds for appeal on a Parking Charge Notice. Whilst yes, I'm sure most of you would argue that you should appeal _any_ PCN I'm looking for a little assistance on what arguments to present for appeal.

Recently a PCN was issued. They have ANPR cameras claiming that I entered the site at 07:27:21, and exited the site at 9:40:14.

The truthful reason why the driver was late leaving the car park was due to them helping a young person with a mental health emergency (They work for a Charity that helps young people), though I imagine this is not a valid "excuse" in the eyes of these parasites.

Since this PCN was issued, I'm told Smart Parking are no longer the operator of this car park. I'm not sure on the reasons why they have been removed as the operators, and I do not believe any operator has replaced them since, though I will confirm this.

My PCN was issued whilst they were the operator, but since they have been removed, does this help my case? I'd presume that whilst they had "Landowner authority" at the time the PCN was issued, they no longer have any landowner authority, therefore do they still have the right to come after me for this PCN?

I'm aware that there should be a minimum of 10 minutes according to the BPA Code of Practice, the driver was 13 minutes late. Whilst it states a minimum of 10 minutes, who's to say what this number should actually be? 11 minutes, 12? Can i argue this grace period when they stayed more than the 10 minute period?

Would someone mind looking at the issued PCN (attached) and see if you feel that this does not meet the PoFA2012 requirements whereby there is no evidence of period parked. I can see that they have an ANPR picture of my vehicle, listed beneath is the entrance and exit time. This isn't evidence of the period parked is it? Given the ANPR has only captured me entering and leaving the site, there is no photo showing I was parked.

The Newbies FAQ provides a template appeal for BPA or IPC memebrs, this is a very generic first appeal that does not detail any real grounds for appeal and would therefore obviously be rejected.

Is this recommended? and then send my "actual" grounds for appeal via the popla appeal process? Or do I put a (hopefully) well worded, strong appeal letter to begin with outlining any of the above points you feel are valid arguments? If I were to send the above arguments in the first appeal, can I re-iterate the same arguments via popla or am I expected to provide more information than the first appeal?

Would anyone be able to give me some advice on how best to proceed?

The PCN can be found here: <removed>

Thanks for your time.

Redx

as the NEWBIES thread tells you , what happened on the day is largely irrelevant , parking companies routinely turn down appeals, so the initial appeal is to get a POPLA reference, then the real fun starts and all of the usual technical points are used, even if they are NOT in the original initial appeal

and you should edit the last post to remove any hint of who was driving, only mention the DRIVER for what happened on the day and the KEEPER for anything that happened later (like the postal pcn (NTK)

appeal as keeper using the blue text template, stop trying to reinvent the wheel, because until the government change the system , its biased in favour of these p@rasites

the ideal cancellation is one by a landowner, as that NEWBIES thread tells you, so any feeling of being hard done by should be directed at them (without revealing who was driving, so the royal "we" will suffice)

the fact they are no longer there is irrelevant , they were there "on the day" and so can enforce the contract they had in place on that fateful day (if they can convince a judge that they have a legal case)

the ANPR system measures "time on site" , not the "period parked" , the time on site is given as 10 minutes grace period in the BPA CoP, which is a guideline , not a law , but this is for where parking is not permitted, so not what happened in this case

there are TWO grace periods covering the stay in this case, one after entering and before parking of up to 10 minutes, and a minimum of 10 minutes to leave once the parking period has finished. so these TWO grace periods apply in your case and cover the alleged "overstay" and could amount to 21 minutes or so in total

dont be making it even more complicated than it already is

The_Deep

You may appeal on a multitude of grounds, was a contract formed, were they properly accredited to ply their trade on the land, was their signage in order, was their paperwork in order, did they adhere to POFA, was the land covered by bye-laws, etc.

Every thing is explained in the FAQs/stickies, reading and understanding them is a sine qua non to playing the game.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week, hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. It has even been suggested that some of these companies have links with organised crime.

Watch the video of the Second Reading and committee stage in the House of Commons recently. MPs have a very low opinion of this industry.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-07-19/debates/2b90805c-bff8-4707-8bdc-b0bfae5a7ad5/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill(FirstSitting)

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by in the not too distant future..

MetricFT

Thanks for both of your responses, and confirmation that the grace period could be combined to be up to 20 minutes.

Would you advise including the reason for the driver being late (Supporting a Mental Heal Crisis) on the appeal or just keep it to the following arguments:

No Landowner Authority - No evidence of previous contract with landowner, and since PCN contract appears to have been terminated.

Grace Period of 20 minutes - The vehicle left 13 minutes after the allotted time.

PCN does not comply with PoFA2012 by failing to provide evidence of period parked, only ANPR camera of entrance/exit.

Thanks

Quentin

The advice you have been given should be followed


Send the initial appeal template as is


(PPCs aren't interested in any mitigating circs!)


Your photo shows unique info that will allow the PPC to identify you (eg exact times on photos/location etc) and need more red lining


You need to further edit your OP - use the third party as in "the driver" did this/"the keeper" did that

KeithP

As has already been said, send the standard blue text template appeal that you have already found.

Send it unchanged - no additions or alterations necessary.

Send it as the keeper.

MetricFT

To confirm, I have already sent the initial appeal template as advised by RedX.

Knowing that this will be rejected I'm still seeking advice for the contents of my popla appeal, as I can begin preparing that in advance of receiving a rejection letter.

KeithP

Then have a look at post #3 of the NEWBIES thread where you will find comprehensive guidance on how to prepare a PoPLA appeal with near template examples of many points.

MetricFT

I appreciate your response Keith, I've already been through the NEWBIES thread and it is a wealth of information that I have already used to provisionally have 3 arguments for my draft popla appeal.

My question was not in relation to the "typical" arguments and instead seek advice on whether or not to include the justification for being late due to the aforementioned mental health emergency, though re-reading Quentin's previous response this was answered "(PPCs aren't interested in any mitigating circs!)"

Therefore I will instead prepare my popla appeal based on the following only:

* No Landowner Authority - No evidence of previous contract with landowner, and since PCN contract appears to have been terminated.

* Grace Period of 20 minutes - The vehicle left 13 minutes after the allotted time.

* PCN does not comply with PoFA2012 by failing to provide evidence of period parked, only ANPR camera of entrance/exit.

Thanks

nosferatu1001

POPLA wont give two figs about FRUSTRATION OF CONTRACT (Which is NOT a mitigating circumstance, legally - it means the contract ended) which is wha tyouwould be arguing. Circumstances outside of the dtrivers control means they couldnt comply.

KeithP

And include The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who was liable for the charge, if appropriate.