Project Solar / Duracell/Solar Panels

pinnks

All sorts of things are not clear from the text you have pasted in but what sticks out for me is the bit about clever export and import at best prices. The FiT is based on deemed export, so it matters not how much you export or when. I am sure this topic will run as those on here with more knowledge that I go and research the offering in detail and comment here - but it still wouldn't convince me to use this particular firm:rotfl:

Exiled_Tyke

The installer I spoke to about this suggested that participants in the scheme no longer claim deemed export payments. I've got a feeling they come of FIT altogether, which for recent installs won't make a huge difference but for older systems would wipe out all financial viability.

Wunderful

The original post on this topic combined a number of discrete aspects in a combined package, and this has led to some confused analysis and conclusions by others who are considering just part of the big picture.

i am familiar with the package in question and will try and shed some light.

1) The supplier offered to install solar panels at a price that many forum members indicate is excessive. This may well be true, my panels were installed in 2011 so I cannot comment on prices today, but the Supplier in question is offering solar panels as just part of an overall package. --- If this is high buy solar from somewhere else but still consider the other unique parts of their service offering.

2) The supplier also offers their Social Energy application and services. This new service combines their clients solar generation and battery storage capacity to make profits from the buy low sell high concept in the electricity market. Unlike stock markets the electricity market is more predictable and it is not too difficult to know when peak prices and low demands occur during each and every week. Most of the profits from this activity are shared with their clients who own both the solar panels and integrated battery storage.

It is the additional capital generated from this service that makes buying batteries a cost effective exercise.The payback alone is sufficient to cover the capital outlay for batteries in a reasonable length of time.

3) Choosing and installing an appropriate battery to enhance the benefits of your solar panel generation is a 3rd part in the total package on offer to the initial poster in this thread.

Without a battery solar panels can only meet part of the typical daily demands of consumers. The 2 main times where it fails to meet needs are when it is dark and when a client is using a greater capacity of energy than their solar panels are currently creating. With battery storage availability their household system can make better use of their own solar power than it could with solar panels.alone.

The financial value of this benefit is not sufficient on its own to offset the cost of buying batteries at present, but, ... when combined with the profits outlined in part 2 it becomes a judgement call on whether this benefit tips the balance.

I hope this shows that there are a number of distinct aspects on offer here. Clients can choose to mix and match who they use as their suppliers, picking the best to meet their own needs and situations.

Another aspect has been raised here but appears misunderstood. At present our grid network was designed in the days when we had a few places to generate power and we then had an appropriate network capacity to distribute the energy round the grid to reach the intended homes, buildings and factories that used electricity.

Now that we have over a million places generating electricity instead of just a few, the balance and distribution profile across the grid has changed from what was intended. In places with a very high take up of solar power generation.concentrated in a small geographical area that was previously designed to carry smaller amounts of energy the network cannot cope.

In these places there is a choice for those responsible for balancing and managing grid capacity. Either invest and upgrade the local networks to accommodate additional solar power generation OR restrict and limit the addition of more solar panels in areas already saturated with solar power.. Some earlier posts must be from people who have come across restrictions in their area but were not sure why this happened.

Hope some of this helps previous posters and helps others gain more clarity on the pros and cons of their potential purchases.:o:wave:

Wunderful

See my detailed review and response to your post, hope this helps clarify things for you.

Jeepers_Creepers

Thanks for an alternative view, Wunderful.

I am interested in this issue as my sister is considering purchasing a house which has a recently-fitted 30 x 330W PV system feeding (at the moment) a single 4.5kWh battery, and is also on 'Social Energy'.

An extra couple of factors I think worth adding to your points are; the batteries are warranted for 10 years - what will the replacement cost of the batteries be beyond a decade's time? Surely nothing like the current £2.5k a pop. I'll pull a pure guess out of the air - half current prices? Quite possibly even less. And, what will the cost of grid electricity be in a decade's time? Well, it's gone up around 75% over the previous decade, and I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate it'll continue at at least this rate in the future.

That surely tips the balance more in to the financial practicalities of a PV + battery system? By how much, I've no idea...

Hexane

Jeepers_Creepers wrote: »

I am interested in this issue as my sister is considering purchasing a house which has a recently-fitted 30 x 330W PV system feeding (at the moment) a single 4.5kWh battery, and is also on 'Social Energy'

That sounds pretty cool (anything with more installed power than my deliberately over-specified system is automatically pretty cool!) and must have cost a substantial amount of money, maybe £10,000 or more. Lovely to get that in with a house purchase, but on the other hand your sister should be sure she's not paying £10,000 extra for the house just because it has all this hardware attached.

She will also need to do all the due diligence as to who actually owns all aspects of the system, what warranties and insurance backed guarantees come with it and are transferable, whether it is registered for FiT or some other arrangement and whether this will be transferred, where the MCS certificate is if applicable, and so on.

And finally, the idea that electricity prices have gone up by X in the last Y timescale, therefore we can expect similar price increases going forward, is something that we regularly hear from the more questionable sorts of salespeople. It may well be something that the vendors of the house your sister is considering, were told in order to persuade them to fork out for that really cool system. But she should take it with a pinch of salt in terms of thinking of paying over the odds for the house.

Hexane

Wunderful wrote: »

i am familiar with the package in question

Please could you mention how it is that you are familiar with it?

Wunderful wrote: »

Most of the profits from this activity are shared with their clients
...
The payback alone is sufficient to cover the capital outlay for batteries in a reasonable length of time

It would be great if you could give us some figures for "most" (what percentage of profits, and how are these profits calculated?) and "a reasonable length of time" (how many years, and how is that figure calculated?) Without figures and an explanation of the basis for them, any such claims should always be treated with suspicion...

Wunderful wrote: »

This new service combines their clients solar generation and battery storage capacity to make profits from the buy low sell high concept in the electricity market.
...
3) Choosing and installing an appropriate battery to enhance the benefits of your solar panel generation
...
Clients can choose to mix and match who they use as their suppliers

Some of your wording in these last three extracts sounds rather salesy to me. I hope you don't mind my asking if you have a background in sales or marketing...

Martyn1981

Jeepers_Creepers wrote: »

And, what will the cost of grid electricity be in a decade's time? Well, it's gone up around 75% over the previous decade, and I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate it'll continue at at least this rate in the future.

Looking at the NAO predictions (page 39) which have steadily reduced over time, prices (in real terms) could rise by about 1.5p/kWh before dropping back down to today's levels.

So +10% on a 15p tariff, perhaps 7.5% on a no standing charge tariff.

Jeepers_Creepers

Hi Hexane.

Yup - it cost the current owners £14k... and was installed as part of a complete renovation (the guy's a builder). It also is hooked up to Social Energy.

Fair points about due diligence - but it would come complete with the house.

As for the future cost of electricity, I obviously haven't more than a rough clue and haven't examined that in any detail - it was almost complete assumption. And, yes, it was used by the installers to predict future savings for this system. But... the cost of changing over to renewables, along with energy management and car charging points etc etc is surely not going to make electricity cheaper any day soon.

Whether - as Martyn points out in that report - in real terms it'll come back to current levels is very interesting.

As far as it affecting the asking price of the house, it's one of these places that's hard to value - a converted village hall.



Thanks for the points raised.

Wunderful

Answering Hexanes questions about my post.

1) How are you familiar with Social Energy? Ans. since Feb 2019 I have been a customer, I already had solar panels bought outright from a Midlands based Company in 2011. My Fits payments contract has remained the same, they are supplied to me by SSE as they have always been.

In 2019 I added the Duracell battery and transferred to Social Energy for my Grid Electricity Supplier Company.

2) I don't have to hand figures to answer the question about facts and figures.
Too much effort for me to answer this question I am afraid.

3) Suggesting I have a Sales and Marketing background.
Answer Totally wrong deduction made here, I am very analytical and precise in my thinking though.
My career was in teaching Mathematics at Secondary level and then in the new emerging Digital industry of the 70's. Programming, Systems Design and full Systems Implementation and management for large corporate Financial and Engineering systems.
Hope this places my answers in better context for you.