Clarification: is a NTO the same as NTK?

Handbags-at-dawn

Re your new thread headed "Indigo Saba: it seems they think they are above the law now":
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5995164/indigo-saba-it-seems-they-think-they-are-above-the-law-now&highlight=indigo

Yup. Indigo/Saba/ZZPS have considerable form for not only bungling laid down procedures but also inventing their own version of the law. Let’s start a list:-

1. Sending debt collection letters when an appeal is in progress.

2. Sending debt collection letters when the time limit for prosecution is up.

3. On the one hand describing the penalty as “an offer of disposal” – which of course the offeree can decline; and on the other hand describing it as a debt which must be paid (a complete lie).

4. Saying “the owner may be liable; therefore he is”. Interesting logic.

5. Suggesting the owner can be prosecuted. No. There's nothing the owner per se can be prosecuted for. It's not an offence to be the owner of a car allegedly parked in breach of the Byelaws.

6. Suggesting the keeper can be presumed to be the owner. Another lie. No such presumption in law.

7. Saying “If you don’t pay up we might clamp your car”. Even Byelaw14(4)(ii) doesn't authorise clamping for the purpose of extracting an unenforceable penalty for an alleged previous contravention. It's dangerously close to falling within the definition of blackmail (s21, Theft Act 1968).

8. Stating on the NTO “An offence has been committed by breaching Byelaw 14”. No. That’s for the Magistrates’ Court and no-one else to decide. Until then the driver is presumed to be innocent.

And that's just for starters. You would think there's enough there for the BPA to take strong disciplinary action - after all, aren't they bringing the worshipful company of PPCs into disrepute? But the BPA rolls over every time. It's even allowed them to appoint their own "independent" appeal service instead of POPLA. One can't help wondering what it's afraid of.

ookle

Handbags-at-dawn wrote: »

Re your new thread headed "Indigo Saba: it seems they think they are above the law now":
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5995164indigo

Yup. Indigo/Saba/ZZPS have considerable form for not only bungling laid down procedures but also inventing their own version of the law. Let’s start a list:-

1. Sending debt collection letters when an appeal is in progress.

2. Sending debt collection letters when the time limit for prosecution is up.

3. On the one hand describing the penalty as “an offer of disposal” – which of course the offeree can decline; and on the other hand describing it as a debt which must be paid (a complete lie).

4. Saying “the owner may be liable; therefore he is”. Interesting logic.

5. Suggesting the owner can be prosecuted. No. There's nothing the owner per se can be prosecuted for. It's not an offence to be the owner of a car allegedly parked in breach of the Byelaws.

6. Suggesting the keeper can be presumed to be the owner. Another lie. No such presumption in law.

7. Saying “If you don’t pay up we might clamp your car”. Even Byelaw14(4)(ii) doesn't authorise clamping for the purpose of extracting an unenforceable penalty for an alleged previous contravention. It's dangerously close to falling within the definition of blackmail (s21, Theft Act 1968).

8. Stating on the NTO “An offence has been committed by breaching Byelaw 14”. No. That’s for the Magistrates’ Court and no-one else to decide. Until then the driver is presumed to be innocent.

And that's just for starters. You would think there's enough there for the BPA to take strong disciplinary action - after all, aren't they bringing the worshipful company of PPCs into disrepute? But the BPA rolls over every time. It's even allowed them to appoint their own "independent" appeal service instead of POPLA. One can't help wondering what it's afraid of.

I can add to that:

Their parking contract now is above the law apparently!:(

Coupon-mad

If they are still demanding money now it's well past the six months for a penalty to be pursued via Mags court (making it statute barred) then email a complaint to Steve Clark at the BPA.

waamo

Tell them it is now time barred for prosecution and you require they delete your data as required by GDPR.

ookle

Thanks both Coupon-mad and Waamo.

That is exactly what I did, quoting Mag Act, GDPR etc.

Their responses are...

Indigo say, in a nutshell, quoting the BPA code of practice, that they can obtain the registered keeper details from DVLA...and that they must wait 14 days before taking further action e.g. court/debt recovery. Therefore they have "probable cause to continue to pursue for payment".

QDR say that the keeper's data is being processed as part of a contract, t's & c's of which "were agreed when the car park was used". They will continue to process the data, unless documentary evidence is provided to confirm "you are no longer liable to pay the balance in relation to this matter".

Is it a complaint to BPA and ICO now?

Coupon-mad

Steve Clark, like I said.

Umkomaas

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Steve Clark, like I said.

steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

Coupon-mad

QDR say that the keeper's data is being processed as part of a contract,

But it's NOT. This is NOT a 'contractual charge'.

waamo

Complain to the ICO too. As above this is not a contract it's a penalty under railway byelaws. If it was a contract then they would be obliged to offer POPLA.

The_Deep

Have you complained to your MP?

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.