Night Storage or Electric Radiators?

Robbie_Macca

Hi,

Having recently completed a renovation of my house, including a decent sized double storage extension, I’m currently weighing up our heating options. A few points below for background info.

[*]No gas, and not keen on oil or LPG etc. So electric options are all I’m looking at.
[*]Currently we have 4 Dimplex XLSN NSH’s, and three panel heaters in bedrooms.
[*]We’ve lived there for 5 years, and only two of them really get used in winter months. The other two have probably been on for four nights in total over the five years.
[*]NSH don’t get used at all between April and end of Oct.
[*]The family of four are all out of the house between 9 and 6 during the week.
[*]We’ve had a 180 litre unvented cylinder installed for our hot water, which heats up during Economy 7 hours.
[*]Per annum we use 5,840 kW/h at night, and 5,627 kW/h at during the day (Prior to extension anyways!)
[*]I’ve have had a quote from is a company that sells via a local electrical trade store, and there are coming in at £3k+VAT for 10 radiators of varying sizes between 1800W and 600W.


Based on the above, I have a few basic questions.

[*]Would you stick with NSH and get a couple more for the new rooms or replace with electric radiators, give my low usage at night over the year? The product appears to be good, but I’m wary of salesman talk and am concerned I might be taking a jump into the unknown.
[*]I’m not sure how much kW/h my water heating is costing, any rough ideas?
[*]When I do a calc using good rates currently available for both single tariff (15.551p, SC 18.8p) and dual tariff (D 16.84p N 11.35p SC 20.37p), The annual charge would be £1,852 for single tariff, and dual tariff surprisingly works out at a little more, £1,856. Does this even make sense, or have i bodged up the calc?

I'm leaning towards going with new radiators, but looking for someone to reassure me that its the right decision... particularly from someone not trying to sell me something....!

Richie-from-the-Boro

Read these threads and ask a question my friend.

wavelets

Robbie_Macca wrote: »

Hi,

Having recently completed a renovation of my house, including a decent sized double storage extension, I’m currently weighing up our heating options. A few points below for background info.

• No gas, and not keen on oil or LPG etc. So electric options are all I’m looking at.
• Currently we have 4 Dimplex XLSN NSH’s, and three panel heaters in bedrooms.
• We’ve lived there for 5 years, and only two of them really get used in winter months. The other two have probably been on for four nights in total over the five years.
• NSH don’t get used at all between April and end of Oct.
• The family of four are all out of the house between 9 and 6 during the week.
• We’ve had a 180 litre unvented cylinder installed for our hot water, which heats up during Economy 7 hours.
• Per annum we use 5,840 kW/h at night, and 5,627 kW/h at during the day (Prior to extension anyways!)
• I’ve have had a quote from is a company that sells via a local electrical trade store, and there are coming in at £3k+VAT for 10 radiators of varying sizes between 1800W and 600W.

Based on the above, I have a few basic questions.

• Would you stick with NSH and get a couple more for the new rooms or replace with electric radiators, give my low usage at night over the year? The product appears to be good, but I’m wary of salesman talk and am concerned I might be taking a jump into the unknown.
• I’m not sure how much kW/h my water heating is costing, any rough ideas?
• When I do a calc using good rates currently available for both single tariff (15.551p, SC 18.8p) and dual tariff (D 16.84p N 11.35p SC 20.37p), The annual charge would be £1,852 for single tariff, and dual tariff surprisingly works out at a little more, £1,856. Does this even make sense, or have i bodged up the calc?

I'm leaning towards going with new radiators, but looking for someone to reassure me that its the right decision... particularly from someone not trying to sell me something....!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=74780609&postcount=279 :cool:

In answer to your respective questions:

• Yes, stick with NSH unless you want to pay 50% more for the heat (using your figures)
• No idea. It's a bit like asking how long is a piece of string. Put a measurement device on it and measure it. (Immersion heaters are usually rated at 3kW if that assists)
• Consult a comparison site to find the best deal (and the associated annual costs) for you.

Also, as such a long standinmg MSEer - despite the 7 year hiatus, if you can buy the same electricity at about 2/3rds the usual price, why wouldn't you take maximum benefit of this?
You are using over 5000kWh per year at normal rate which is high, and with 4 night storage heaters available to heat your property, getting only about 50% low rate usage is appalling (imho)

Robbie_Macca

Yes, I have looked at these posts already. It’s not Fischer, but I take your point, they’re probably much of a muchness.

I accept that per kW/hr used to heat, the cost of electric would go up by ~40% if I switch from a dual tariff to single. However, won’t my energy consumption go down in comparison to using NSH? i.e. the storage heaters will draw power for 7 hrs continuously at a lot higher rates than the electric radiators as the are rated a lot higher? As stated above the whole family is out until 6pm and therefore heating would not need to be turned on until shortly before we arrive home?

if I am only using ~50% of my electric during Economy 7 hours (I suspect due to our modest heating requirements over the year), is it even worth my being on a Eco 7 tariff?

I am puzzled why my night/day ratio is so poor, I'm wondering whether the new water tank has been wired the wrong way round/ or labelled the wrong way now!

Robbie_Macca

wavelets wrote: »

You are using over 5000kWh per year at normal rate which is high, and with 4 night storage heaters available to heat your property, getting only about 50% low rate usage is appalling (imho)

Whats the average for a family of four?


If i turn on the other two NSH's i will cook the family, and probably next door!

matelodave

If you put a bit of effort into reading your meters regularly (say once a week or even daily for a couple of weeks) then you'll get a much better idea of when it's being consumed and waht is consuming it rather than just having a guess based on a 12 month total.

When you know whats using it you can do something about either reducing your consumption (mainly by turning stuff off) or ensuring that you are maximising your off-peak use.

Spending £3k on heaters that are likely to cost you more to run, doens't sound like ever such a good idea to me.

I'd be inclined to spend £20 on one from Argos (which would cost the same to run as one with magic dust, snake oil or gold flakes) and see how effective it would be and much it would cost to run before chucking out what is probably the cheapest form of heating by electricty.

AndyPK

what do you want 10 new rads for ? All for the extension ?

What is the extension? living or bedrooms?

Won't 4 be plenty ?
Get them off ebay!

PeterGr

Ofgem's rate for typical consumption values is for 42% off-peak. Using the tariff rates in your post I reckon that anything over 25% off-peak would be cheaper than single rate.


My calculation agrees with your £1852 for single rate, but reckons £1685 for off peak. As has already been said reducing your total consumption, and maintaining a good ratio of off-peak consumption is what you are striving for.

EachPenny

Robbie_Macca wrote: »

I am puzzled why my night/day ratio is so poor, I'm wondering whether the new water tank has been wired the wrong way round/ or labelled the wrong way now!

Have you checked to make sure your meter is switching at the correct times - especially if you have 'whole house' Economy 7 and any of the heaters are controlled by their own separate timer.

Older E7 meters use a mechanical clock which can drift so the E7 hours are not during the night. If that is the case for you then you might want to think about getting the clock changed... or not (just ensure your heavy consumers are operating during the hours the meter is on low rate)

If you have a separate distribution board for E7 (not 'whole house') then make sure the main heating element on your hot water cylinder is fed from that one.

Robbie_Macca

AndyPK wrote: »

what do you want 10 new rads for ? All for the extension ?

What is the extension? living or bedrooms?

Won't 4 be plenty ?
Get them off ebay!

A living room, master bedroom, kitchen diner/ day room, and a utility. So yeah, 4 new ones, though like I’ve said, ive had the whole house renovated and the NSHs are most attractive... could just put rad covers over them though.

Robbie_Macca

PeterGr wrote: »

Ofgem's rate for typical consumption values is for 42% off-peak. Using the tariff rates in your post I reckon that anything over 25% off-peak would be cheaper than single rate.


My calculation agrees with your £1852 for single rate, but reckons £1685 for off peak. As has already been said reducing your total consumption, and maintaining a good ratio of off-peak consumption is what you are striving for.

Thanks Pete for clarifying and the sound advice.