Can a company force staff to attend Christmas Party?

ryan121

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

Phoning in sick when not sick is gross misconduct (and claiming sick pay would be fraud) and liable for dismissal, if the employer wants to get mean about it.

I used to think like that too but most employers don't actually care and it would be too hard for them to prove. An employer can make you redundant very quickly if they want so loyalty is pointless. It's definitely pointless putting yourself out for a Christmas party you don't want to go to.

As this is on a work day presumably they've said to you that you can't phone in sick, just do it anyway. They can't tell you that you cant be ill on a certain day.

In the end, if you're useful and good at your job it's very unlikely they will get rid of you.

warehouse

If you're going to go down the sick route then phone in the day before and come back a few days afterwards.

gettingtheresometime

warehouse wrote: »

If you're going to go down the sick route then phone in the day before and come back a few days afterwards.

& given that the OP has already stated their objections to going to the party then your idea won't in anyway be suspicious will it???

sangie595

lloydy84 wrote: »

I tried to cover this type of reply already, I guess you did not read it so I will repeat it. Re-read what I have written. I came here seeking advice as to whether my employer had the right to do this. I never asked for any magic bit of legal advice and I think I have been entirely realistic in everything I have said.

For some reason people seem to balloon a simple question into something it is not.. Speaking about losing my job and all sorts of things, when did I ever suggest I would risk my job, are you actually reading what I am typing before you reply? Comms already set the record straight in the very first reply and I have thanked him for that.

I have made it clear that if I am not back to have my children I wont see them that weekend and may have other consequences. This may not seem a big deal to you but is to me.

@ Comms69. In regards to cafcass, they spoke to me, spoke to my ex, spoke to one child (my youngest cannot speak so they could not speak to him), they wrote down my child's wishes, which was for contact to continue as it had once been (110 days a year), and that is what they recommended. That everything goes back to how it once was. Counter to this my ex offered every other weekend and 2 weeks per year during holidays.

Cafcass recommendations (which I supported 100%) were largely ignored/over ruled by the Court and I was given closer to what my ex wanted rather than what cafcass recommended.

It was not a consent order no.

You are completely misunderstanding my point. You have received an instruction from your employer. You may ignore it and take whatever consequences ensue - which may be none and may be anything up to and including dismissal. Or you may comply. Everything else is irrelevant. That's the answer to the question you asked!

Absolutely everything else is window dressing. So I am making no comment or judgement on your childcare, court rulings or your colleagues anxiety. You asked, can the employer force you to attend? The answer is that they have. Whether they intend to do anything about refusal to comply is not within our purview.

You are at liberty to refuse, to lie and go off sick (dismissal only requires reasonable belief your are lying, not factual evidence, contrary to some posters views here), or do whatever else you wish. You've had the answer you asked for. The other answers are guesses about your employers intentions in respect of whether they'll act on your failure to comply. In fact, past the answer, the only thing that can be said is what I've told you - you may be taking a risk with your employment, and a possible consequence may be dismissal, fair or not. If you're happy to have no job and join the queue for a tribunal to find out then fair enough. Would you prefer that you are not warned? Because if you like I can do just like others here... Yes OP, they're being totally unreasonable, lie about being sick, there's nothing they can do about it and you definitely won't get disciplined or dismissed. Is that better advice?

I'm out on this one now. You have your answer. You simply don't like it. That's fair enough, but don't say that you weren't warned if it doesn't work out the way you want.

robatwork

sangie595 wrote: »

I'm out on this one now. You have your answer. You simply don't like it. That's fair enough, but don't say that you weren't warned if it doesn't work out the way you want.

Good thing you're out - he will ask you to refrain from posting in his next reply to you. I find it fairly easy to comply from now on. A 2 .5 hour "party" during the day sounds super plausible.

steampowered

I think we may be overthinking this.

Last year, only 10 out of 50 staff attended.

No doubt this reflected badly on the Op's manager, or the manager got told off by his boss. So the Op's manager wants better attendance this year. So the Op's manager tells people that attendance is mandatory.

In all likelihood, the Op's manager will probably be very happy if he manages to get attendance of say 45 out of 50 people. Most people would understand if you have a genuine reason as to why you can't attend.

What the manager will want to avoid is everyone in the office making up lame excuses because they can't be bothered to go.

It feels unlikely that you would face a disciplinary or be sacked over not attending where you have a very good reason!

Lincoln_Imp

Not a lot of help to the OP but the last place i worked at had a 100 year celebration party (Big manufacturing company)
They were holding it on the shop floor at 2pm but most of the 6 to 2 people said they would not stop over so they altered the shift hours for that day to 7 till 3 forcing everyone to attend ,That went down well ..Not

Undervalued

steampowered wrote: »

I think we may be overthinking this.

Last year, only 10 out of 50 staff attended.

No doubt this reflected badly on the Op's manager, or the manager got told off by his boss. So the Op's manager wants better attendance this year. So the Op's manager tells people that attendance is mandatory.

In all likelihood, the Op's manager will probably be very happy if he manages to get attendance of say 45 out of 50 people. Most people would understand if you have a genuine reason as to why you can't attend.

What the manager will want to avoid is everyone in the office making up lame excuses because they can't be bothered to go.

It feels unlikely that you would face a disciplinary or be sacked over not attending where you have a very good reason!

I totally agree but Sangie is correct to point out the possible (although hopefully unlikely) consequences.

If the OP does anything other that comply he runs a risk, however slight.

What he certainly must not do is kick up a fuss then magically go sick! As I said earlier if he is going to play the sick card (and I would really not recommend it) then he needs to act all enthusiastic and not breath a word of his reservations and problems to anybody!

lloydy84

sangie595 wrote: »

You are completely misunderstanding my point. You have received an instruction from your employer. You may ignore it and take whatever consequences ensue - which may be none and may be anything up to and including dismissal. Or you may comply. Everything else is irrelevant. That's the answer to the question you asked!

Absolutely everything else is window dressing. So I am making no comment or judgement on your childcare, court rulings or your colleagues anxiety. You asked, can the employer force you to attend? The answer is that they have. Whether they intend to do anything about refusal to comply is not within our purview.

You are at liberty to refuse, to lie and go off sick (dismissal only requires reasonable belief your are lying, not factual evidence, contrary to some posters views here), or do whatever else you wish. You've had the answer you asked for. The other answers are guesses about your employers intentions in respect of whether they'll act on your failure to comply. In fact, past the answer, the only thing that can be said is what I've told you - you may be taking a risk with your employment, and a possible consequence may be dismissal, fair or not. If you're happy to have no job and join the queue for a tribunal to find out then fair enough. Would you prefer that you are not warned? Because if you like I can do just like others here... Yes OP, they're being totally unreasonable, lie about being sick, there's nothing they can do about it and you definitely won't get disciplined or dismissed. Is that better advice?

I'm out on this one now. You have your answer. You simply don't like it. That's fair enough, but don't say that you weren't warned if it doesn't work out the way you want.

'I'm out on this one now. You have your answer. You simply don't like it. That's fair enough, but don't say that you weren't warned if it doesn't work out the way you want.'

At which point did I ever say I did not like the answers that were given? At which point did I ask for any other advice other than from the very person I thanked who said the very same thing you are repeating?

At no point did I ever ask for a different point of view, and not at any point did I imply that I wanted to call in sick or anything else. They were, like you said, guesses by people of which I did not respond to at any point.

Honestly, what is your problem?

lloydy84

I know this is the third post in a row, but I must just repeat what I also posted yesterday.

I came here asking for options and for advice. Some people gave their own opinions on what they would do which is fine I appreciate their comments. Other people gave some great advice to which I responded and thanked them and said I will take this into account when I go into work next week.

But other people come here accusing me of lying (as if somehow I get a kick out of posting on MSE boards asking questions), and others making absurd claims like I am not being realistic, telling me I am not happy with responses, along with saying things like 'how will you afford things if you have no job?' and 'are you really willing to risk your employment over this? How will you support your children then? and ' If you're happy to have no job and join the queue for a tribunal to find out then fair enough.'

Where does this even come from? Can you post anything to me where I have even implied that I would risk my job or do anything that will cause me to have a disciplinary?

Am I the only one just really not understanding why this person is replying and saying these things?

As for everyone else thanks alot for taking an interest and giving your opinions they are very much appreciated.