Handed a notice of Training costs after training has been completed.

Brummie85

Hi All,

I think I've mentioned previously that I completed a course in July, with the financial support of my current employer. It was spotted during my interview that I was 1/2 way through and then I stopped, to which I explained that my previous employers were completely unsupportive and basically wanted me out on the tools 24/7. They asked me if I would finish it if given the opportunity to which I replied "yes". I was given the job and told that I had to complete the qualification as part of the agreement to employ me.

This was all verbally agreed, but the Manager that recruited me moved on to another company in February. My employers were slow to fill their vacancies and replacements didn't arrive until the end of August. It would seem that they've finally realised that there's nothing in writing to stop people taking training and leaving soon afterwards.

Today I was given a letter, stating that if I leave before July 2019 I will have to repay the cost of the course in full. If I leave before July 2020, I'll have to pay 1/2 back. It also states that if I'm dismissed (apart from being made redundant) I'll owe them. If I don't earn enough in my last month to pay the costs, I'm expected to pay back the rest within 7 days.

But, it also says that this agreement should be signed before any training is commenced (that would have been August 2017), which it clearly wasn't. This morning was the first I've seen or heard of a training retainer clause.

Whilst I have no intention of leaving, being handcuffed to them for 3 years wasn't ever explained to me. Anywhere else I've seen it's been 2 and I would say that is reasonable. I also don't agree with the policy seeking full reimbursement within 7 days of leaving. That seems quite punitive, despite the document saying it isn't trying to be. I probably would have carried on with the training if I'd been made aware of the strings attached, but it would have made me think twice. I wasn't given that opportunity to weigh it up & am now being expected to comply.

There's other issues with it, such as the the wrong course title being used and vagueness due to poor wording and structure. As it stands I don't really see it being enforceable.

I'm now split on if I should sign it or say something. I understand the need to protect their investment in employees, but it just seems like they've got it horribly wrong. so

The obvious worry is that if I don't sign, I'm sticking my neck out and will potentially be targeted. I think my boss knows the company have made the mistake, but I'm not sure how he'll take it if I politely decline the terms I should have been given 16+ months ago.

Thoughts?

sammyjammy

If it were me I would probably sign it and deal with it if and when it ever becomes an issue.

Masomnia

sammyjammy wrote: »

If it were me I would probably sign it and deal with it if and when it ever becomes an issue.

Agree with this. Probably not enforceable now; as you rightly say they've !!!!!!ed up by not getting you to sign it beforehand. There's nothing to gain by kicking up a stink if you're not planning on leaving, and if anything it will just cause bad feeling. Esp if you have <2 years service they could dismiss you and even if you win the dispute re your training costs you're out of a job.....

I'd leave it until it becomes an issue.

getmore4less

What are they going to do if you point out that this was not part of your agreement to join and don't agree to retrospective changes like this.

Tigsteroonie

You're not handcuffed for three years. You are handcuffed for two years after the course is completed - you finished in July this year (2018), they handcuff you until 2020.

I don't suppose they mention how they'll calculate the interest if you don't repay within 7 days of leaving ...

Terry2517

I think that legally you could refuse and you would be in the right. However your employer would most likely take that as you are not very loyal and are not looking to stay so would not be a good way to maintain a good relationship with them. Would you have signed it if they gave it to you ate the proper time? If so then I would sign it now.

jobbingmusician

I wouldn't! I might even pay for proper legal advice if it was going to save me, potentially, several thousand pounds. I think I would point out to HR that they can't change the T & C retrospectively - you agreed to do the course before being given or told about the agreement. And while you feel it is fair that you repay x% if you choose to leave, being forced to repay if you are dismissed is not on!

(I've served and eaten dinner between starting and finishing this post, so there are probably a few sensible replies - I hope - between the last post and mine.)


And oh yes, naturally the course of action has to be very circumspect if you have been there less than 2 years..........

getmore4less

If you sign to agree to retrospective claw back you can't change your mind.

The key here is they have leave for just about any reason even if they sack you.

A comprimise is to agree to the claw back only if you Resign.

steampowered

Personally I would not sign.

If pushed, I would explain that although I have no intention of leaving, I am not prepared to be handcuffed. You were told that you had to do the course as a condition of being offered the job but being handcuffed was not part of the agreement.

Especially with the dismissal clause! It is unreasonable for them to expect repayment of training costs if they dismiss you - particularly as they can dismiss for any reason within the first 2 years.

theoretica

Personally, I would forget it at the back of a drawer and see if they notice it hasn't come back - they may well not. If they do, I would then query in puzzlement that I couldn't sign it before 2017. If they still want it signed I would then sign and date it.

Brummie85

It is a kind a weird situation to be in.

I'm also wondering why other training that has been given to me, isn't being covered by such a clause.

They've probably spent another £1200 or so on things like MEWP, Confined Space & use of Pressure Wash equipment. But none of these are being included in the training clawback. It's specifically the HNC they are looking at.

There's also other people that have had other training, with nothing else being said/covered by a similar agreement. Although I know that it's up to the employer to decide what they do or don't decide to seek a clawback clause on.

Leaving it on in drawer is not an option. I get the feeling that the Manager won't forget about it. I'd be willing to compromise - so I guess I'll explain my concerns later in the week and see what he comes back with.