Disciplinary help required - employment law.

wbafanclub12

Hi. I have done something wrong at work. Without going into the details now I immediately owned up to what I did. I made an error of misjudgement and was sent for investigation where it was clear I had done wrong, and I apologised for it. It was decided I needed to have a disciplinary.
I had the standard letter inviting me and the letter stated this could result in a written warning with no mention of Gross Misconduct. I was willing to accept this as I had done wrong by not following procedures. However, after my meeting today the director stated I was being demoted.
My issue is that if the initial letter would have mentioned possible demotion I would have sought further advice, I.e solicitor. I am currently waiting for confirmation letter but in the mean time I just want to know if I have grounds for appeal or constructive dismissal.
I now know I should have taken advice before, but now I am trying to fight a fire.

Any help would be appreciated.

jonnygee2

How long have you worked there? And what do you mean by 'demoted'?

If you will actually be paid less and have a different job title, then effectively that's a dismissal and you can follow all relevant advice for dismissals.

Masomnia

They should give you the right to appeal.

Does your contract give them the right to demote you as a result of disciplinary action?

Les79

Depends on what you did wrong to be fair... Some things can result in a rightful gross misconduct allegation and a dismissal (not merely a demotion). EVEN IF you are honest and up-front about them.


What does your contract of employment/employee handbook say about this sort of thing? Fairly important question if you intend to argue "constructive dismissal", because you'd need to show some sort of breach of contract (failure to follow the processes as outlined) or discrimination based on a protected characteristic (very unlikely here).


Also, did you genuinely mean "solicitor"? Because they typically come in two flavours; the ones you pay for (do you have much money?), and the ones who work on a no-win-no-fee basis. The paid-for ones will happily take your money irrespective of chances (could be a colossal waste of money if you're wrong), whereas the no-win-no-fee ones generally only take on cases with a fair chance of monetary success (in your case some liability was admitted by you and the monetary element is hard to establish, so it may not be attractive enough for one of these companies to pick up your case).


I suspect that you meant to say "my Union" or even "ACAS", both of which ideally should have been the first port of call when presented with the disciplinary letter. Did you approach either? In fact, are you in a union? You still have scope to approach either/both of them like, and I would suggest that you do this ASAP, more so if you are considering resigning due to "constructive dismissal".


Frankly, I feel that you have been "demoted" to a less senior role, as apposed to going from a salesperson to janitor (to use a crude example). If that is the case, I feel that they have got it spot on as ideally those in more senior roles shouldn't be making these sort of "error of misjudgements". But that is without knowing the true extent of the situation (your explanation will naturally be slightly biased so, if you reply to this point, you may not be completely credible to a third party (READ: solicitor) without the other side).

wbafanclub12

I have worked for the company for about 6 yrs.
The part I have questioned is that I have read on numerous sources that when they send you your invitation to disciplinary they are supposed to put in it the possible outcome and state if it is possible dismissal. My letter said that I could expect a written warning.
If they are supposed to tell you that you are just going to get a written warning, and due to that reason alone I take no representation, is that unfair.
I really cannot go into the details on here, but I did make an error which I can understand them treating as Gross Misconduct if done with the right intentions. I just feel that had they told me it was potentially gross misconduct and advised me that I could be demoted rather than telling me I could receive a warning, my response would be different.

BrassicWoman

If you did it, having spoken to a solicitor would have achieved nothing.

sangie595

wbafanclub12 wrote: »

I have worked for the company for about 6 yrs.
The part I have questioned is that I have read on numerous sources that when they send you your invitation to disciplinary they are supposed to put in it the possible outcome and state if it is possible dismissal. My letter said that I could expect a written warning.
If they are supposed to tell you that you are just going to get a written warning, and due to that reason alone I take no representation, is that unfair.
I really cannot go into the details on here, but I did make an error which I can understand them treating as Gross Misconduct if done with the right intentions. I just feel that had they told me it was potentially gross misconduct and advised me that I could be demoted rather than telling me I could receive a warning, my response would be different.

This is simple.

They only have to warn you if the possible outcome is dismissal. Yours wasn't so there was no requirement to warn in advance.

Demotion can only be used as a disciplinary sanction of it is within the policy of the agency - it is not generally acceptable in law. There isn't enough information to say more than that.

On the other hand you agree that the event could be deemed as gross misconduct "if done intentionally" - that bit in the inverted commas is irrelevant. It doesn't mastery of you did it intentionally or not. So you acceot it could be deemed gross misconduct. You are therefore lucky to have a job, and if you appeal then you may not have!

You had the right to take a union rep or work colleague. You chose not you exercise that right. The reason is irrelevant.

You do not have a cat in hells chance of constructive dismissal. If you see through the appeal, you could try (assuming you aren't sacked as a result anyway), but even then I wouldn't rate your chances highly - and given there is almost no chance of winning a constructive dismal claim anyway, that wouldn't be my first option.

Are your willing to bet your job on this? Because any advice is pointless if you aren't.

Comms69

what is the real term effect of the demotion?

Ozzuk

Trouble is you might win a case for constructive dismissal, but as the root cause is actually something you have done then it could be a false victory. I.e. the tribunal recognises the company was in the wrong, but ulitmately you were at fault so no action is taken against the company.

Undervalued

[QUOTE=Ozzuk;74981979]Trouble is you might win a case for constructive dismissal, but as the root cause is actually something you have done then it could be a false victory. I.e. the tribunal recognises the company was in the wrong, but ulitmately you were at fault so no action is taken against the company.[/QUOTE]

Statistically there is a 97% chance of not winning a constructive dismissal case. It is a very high hurdle to climb and less than 3% succeed.

Masomnia

Undervalued wrote: »

Statistically there is a 97% chance of not winning a constructive dismissal case. It is a very high hurdle to climb and less than 3% succeed.

How many settle?