PIP changes of circumstance advice please

Alice_Holt

How many points did your daughter get for:
a) Care,
b) Mobility.
And what descriptors did she get for mobility.

Are you her appointee?


The lastest mobility amendment removed the phrase 'For reasons other than psychological distress' from some of the mobility descriptors in the Planning and Following Journeys activity.
This, as poppy said, means it is now possible for those claimants who experience psychological distress when outside, because of such conditions as ASD, to be awarded enhanced PIP for the mobility component.
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/pip-and-psychological-distress

If the DWP told you that "the new guidelines do not cover claimants with ASD in relation to the new mobility changes. ", he is incorrect, and was misleading you.

I do think you and you daughter should now seek advice, about any further actions re the PIP award.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/contact-us/

Alice_Holt

coastertoaster wrote: »

I need to have a few months of calm in the sense that you know ( if we get it ��) then I shall pursue it again.

The manager assured me it would stay as it is till 2012.

Did you mean 2021?

If you want to appeal the decision, there are time limits (look at the decision letter). You may not be able to pursue it later.

If you and your daughter think the award is wrong, please get advice now.

coastertoaster

Alice_Holt wrote: »

How many points did your daughter get for:
a) Care,
b) Mobility.
And what descriptors did she get for mobility.

Are you her appointee?


The lastest mobility amendment removed the phrase 'For reasons other than psychological distress' from some of the mobility descriptors in the Planning and Following Journeys activity.
This, as poppy said, means it is now possible for those claimants who experience psychological distress when outside, because of such conditions as ASD, to be awarded enhanced PIP for the mobility component.
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/pip-and-psychological-distress

If the DWP told you that "the new guidelines do not cover claimants with ASD in relation to the new mobility changes. ", he is incorrect, and was misleading you.

I do think you and you daughter should now seek advice, about any further actions re the PIP award.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/contact-us/

It is all such a minefield and every time I phone the DWP I seem to get different answers and I have to try and do it all without my daughter being present which if you appreciate is hard as she is either in the room with me, or I am at work so I can't call.
She was assessed in 2016 - award 8 points overall in care so gets the standard level of care. She gets 4 points for mobility now.

She is formally diagnosed as being autistic, with complex social and emotional needs. She suffers with anxiety. She has to be accompanied at at all times with a family member. She basically is 19 years old but the easiest way to explain how she is regarding care is the level of care is that what a parent would have to provide for a 4 or 5 year old.

I am her appointee for these reasons.

poppy12345

Sounds very much like my daughter, although her anxiety isn't the reason she claims Enhanced mobility. As your daughter doesn't go anywhere alone then she should qualify for Enhanced mobility.


Having said that it's easy for anyone to say you should do this or that but i understand what you're saying. It's very difficult when we have to try to do these things when they're not around but when they rely on us so much there's not much time when they aren't with us.



My concern still remains with the fact that you reported a change of circumstances, even though the case manager stated that her existing award will continue. I would be ringing DWP again first thing Monday morning to check that the change of circumstances isn't continuing, if you've still changed your mind that is. Sorry, but i wouldn't trust DWP for anything.

Alice_Holt

So, for mobility she was awarded:
1. Planning and following journeys.
b. Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.

Whereas, if she can't reliably and safely manage a route without help being accompanied by a family member then these would be a more appropriate award:
d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.
or
f. Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

d) would get a standard award (c£23 pw)
e) an enhanced rate (c£56 pw).

Sounds like e) is the more likely descriptor if she has to be accompanied at at all times by a family member for local journeys. As poppy has indicated.

For more info look at pages 109-115 of:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/725533/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf
(and pages 73-8).



What Daily Living descriptors was she given, presumably:
Social engagement (8c. Needs social support to be able to engage with other people. 4 points.), Budgeting, Preparing and cooking meals.

Does she have difficulties dressing (i.e wearing the same clothes, inappropriate clothes), washing (prompting to wash perhaps) ?

coastertoaster

Alice_Holt wrote: »

So, for mobility she was awarded:
1. Planning and following journeys.
b. Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.

Whereas, if she can't reliably and safely manage a route without help being accompanied by a family member then these would be a more appropriate award:
d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.
or
f. Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

d) would get a standard award (c£23 pw)
e) an enhanced rate (c£56 pw).

Sounds like e) is the more likely descriptor if she has to be accompanied at at all times by a family member for local journeys. As poppy has indicated.

For more info look at pages 109-115 of:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/725533/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf
(and pages 73-8).



What Daily Living descriptors was she given, presumably:
Social engagement (8c. Needs social support to be able to engage with other people. 4 points.), Budgeting, Preparing and cooking meals.

Does she have difficulties dressing (i.e wearing the same clothes, inappropriate clothes), washing (prompting to wash perhaps) ?

If I was to talk about my wonderful amazing daughter and a daily 'routine' which is the norm and this is only the tip of our daily lives.
Budgeting and money - no concept what so ever of money. Tried repeatedly to teach and show her as she has got older. Does not have the basic concept of though what each coin is note etc which would help perhaps, when she does go out with me to the shops and goes shopping the only way I can get firstly out of the house is to make a list and then everything has to be got regardless of if available and cost and she thinks it's all available for £10. She was awarded 2 points for this.

Clothing - can't do laces or zips without help. Would wear the same t
clothes everyday if given the chance as she has her favourites. She has 'summer black and 'winter black'. Has to be helped to dress as would go out in what society would see as wrong clothes as she would say and had calm discussions on why you can't go to school in your onesie. For 2 points

Cooking - can recall her answer when asked back in 2016 'cooking yeah you put a tin in the microwave for 10 minutes' her dad and I have to constantly watch her as like I have said would you expect a 4 or 5 year old to cook a meal? She was awarded 2 points. Funny moments are she makes a lovely cup of tea with cold water as she freaks out at the kettle, and laughs about it.

Communication- let's just say at her work capability assessment which took both me and he grandad whom she feels most secure with at most stressful traumatic times. She sat in the room opposite the assessor and didn't say one word whilst gripping my hand for dear life trembling 2 points.

Washing - has to be told / reminded - we at great cost have recently adapted our bathroom so easier to manage this with her. No points in 2016.

Basically 8 points in 2016 to get the standard PIP.

poppy12345

I personally feel that her award isn't high enough and she should be claiming Enhanced for both parts. It's unbelievable how much she sounds like my daughter. I know you can't compare 2 people but the similarities are there.

My thoughts are she should have scored the following points.

Dressing and undressing..2 points sounds correct.

Preparing food.. In my opinion it should be 4 points, for needing assistance.
Communication (communicating verbally) do you mean engaging with others? If so then i think it should be 4 points for needing social support.

Washing and bathing.. 2 points for needing assistance.

Making budgeting decisions.. 6 points... my daughter scored 4 points but my personal opinion on that is she should have scored 6 points because she can't even count single numbers unless she uses fingers. Doesn't know the difference between each coin or note. Doesn't know how much money to give or receive in a shop etc etc. As she had Enhanced anyway, i didn't argue with those points.

Did you send evidence when you made the PIP claim? What sort of evidence did you send? Did it state how her conditions affect her?

Does she have a support worker and a social worker?

coastertoaster

poppy12345 wrote: »

I personally feel that her award isn't high enough and she should be claiming Enhanced for both parts. It's unbelievable how much she sounds like my daughter. I know you can't compare 2 people but the similarities are there.

My thoughts are she should have scored the following points.

Dressing and undressing..2 points sounds correct.

Preparing food.. In my opinion it should be 4 points, for needing assistance.
Communication (communicating verbally) do you mean engaging with others? If so then i think it should be 4 points for needing social support.

Washing and bathing.. 2 points for needing assistance.

Making budgeting decisions.. 6 points... my daughter scored 4 points but my personal opinion on that is she should have scored 6 points because she can't even count single numbers unless she uses fingers. Doesn't know the difference between each coin or note. Doesn't know how much money to give or receive in a shop etc etc. As she had Enhanced anyway, i didn't argue with those points.

Did you send evidence when you made the PIP claim? What sort of evidence did you send? Did it state how her conditions affect her?

Does she have a support worker and a social worker?

Face to face assessment at house back in 2016. Her diagnosis then was how can I put it 'on hold' as to circumstances involving her dad not wanting it on her medical records. Yes I know it wouldn't have perhaps made a difference as it's to do with level of care etc but it also didn't make any difference to her statement through school (She had full 32 hour statement NOT EHCP 1-1 support lovely sentence in that written adult had to be her in school at all times) . Only team who would not work with her in school due to the formal diagnosis not being in her record was the ASD team (but advice was given through the back door).

Cahms were involved and still on the back burner.

Alice_Holt

I'm with poppy - that doesn't seem a fair award.

If you (as her appointee) do decide to appeal, it would seem these could be the grounds for appealing for an enhanced award for both components -

DL -
9. Engaging with other people face to face.
c. Needs social support to be able to engage with other people. 4 points.
( Rather than 2 points). Examples would be:
You explaining things at the assessment; you going to the GP with her to explain things and help her understand, you helping her shop and communicate with shop assistants, etc etc
Look at the PIP assessment guide for more info.

10. Making budgeting decisions.
c. Needs prompting or assistance to be able to make simple budgeting decisions. 4 points.
She has 2 points for "complex" decisions - these are managing household budgets, paying bills, etc
"Simple" decisions is knowing if the correct change has been given, having a basic concept of money,etc

1. Preparing food.
e. Needs supervision or assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 4 points.
(Rather than 2 points)
Could she follow a simple recipe without help? Your example of making tea with cold water shows that supervision is required. "This descriptor also applies to claimants who are unable to determine whether food is safe to eat – for example, that meat is properly cooked."

Mobility -

Per previous post
1f. Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

This is a guide to PIP appeals:
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal?gclid=CjwKCAjwsfreBRB9EiwAikSUHQdSMoNSkzy0oe2JvUlSrV09gZrtK1Yp1IicnNBrbFNK8ZQGQM3U8hoCD0IQAvD_BwE

And this site has some very good guides:
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip

poppy12345

coastertoaster wrote: »

Face to face assessment at house back in 2016. Her diagnosis then was how can I put it 'on hold' as to circumstances involving her dad not wanting it on her medical records. Yes I know it wouldn't have perhaps made a difference as it's to do with level of care etc but it also didn't make any difference to her statement through school (She had full 32 hour statement NOT EHCP 1-1 support lovely sentence in that written adult had to be her in school at all times) . Only team who would not work with her in school due to the formal diagnosis not being in her record was the ASD team (but advice was given through the back door).

Cahms were involved and still on the back burner.

You're right, a diagnosis wouldn't have made any difference.


That sentence in the statement most likely didn't help and more specific evidence would/is needed to state exactly how her conditions affect her. Letters that state what she needs help doing and why she needs the help. What would happen if she didn't have assistance.

As Alice suggested, making tea with cold water is a perfect example and exactly the things they will look for.



Great guide here.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria