PCN, Resident with Incorrect Permit, UKCPM/Gladstones

TurnerToken

Hi All

I've trawled these forums, and a lot of what's here is really helpful, or would have been helpful a few months ago before I filed a dumb defence! I'm now at a more complicated stage and hoping someone can help.

Background is, my mum has owned a flat for 15+ years which I have lived in on/off over the years. It is empty for months at a time, so post isn't picked up regularly. I was visiting the flat in March last year and apparently got a PCN from UK Car Park Management Limited. As I don't live there full time I only realised this fine had escalated once I received the Claim Form issued by Gladstones Solicitors (my car is still registered at that flat as I move a lot). The Particulars of Claim were woefully brief, as I now realise is standard from them, so I didn't really understand what I had done wrong. I now know what I should have done, thanks to these forums, but I didn't do the sensible thing...

I have a parking permit for the car park (or what I thought was the right permit) so shot off a really brief (and in hindsight awful) defence which basically said "I am a resident, I have a permit, here's a copy of my permit'. Gladstones replied with their standard letter of 'we are pursuing this, here's a copy of our directions questionnaire, we want a paper trial'.

I called them and emailed them (I KNOW I KNOW, I can feel you all cringing now, I didn't know this forum existed and thought I could reason with them, I'm a fool) and Gladstones said that 'no valid permit was on display', at which point they emailed me photos of my car from the day. I pointed out my permit was visible, to which they replied that it was a visitor's permit and I am a resident, so not valid. I was infuriated by this and replied to say I am not the only driver of the car (true) and how did they know the car wasn't being driven by a visitor? So now they've said that it is a permit for the wrong company. This appears to be true, and I haven't worked out with the management company yet why this is. I assume there was a change in parking management company at some point and I didn't have the right permit now. The most recent permit my mother got is a UK CPM one.

In any case, I would be grateful for advice about how I now go back and bulk out my defence or basically how I say all the things I need to say now. Do I need permission from the Claimant to file an amended Defence or can I can just try to file one anyway? Or, can I try to crowbar most of what I should have said in my Defence into my Witness Statement?

The upshot of it all is, I had what I thought was a legitimate permit and had permission from the leaseholder to be parked there. The management company (to whom my mother pays ground rent/service charge) employed this company to 'police' parking, but not to fine residents and legitimate visitors. I'm aware I should possibly be considering action against the management company too, but this feels a bit beyond me at this point given my evidently awful attempts to navigate the court system already.

Any help would be much appreciated, thank you in advance.

Coupon-mad

crowbar most of what I should have said in my Defence into my Witness Statement

This is the right answer! Are you at WS and evidence stage?

So now they've said that it is a permit for the wrong company. This appears to be true, and I haven't worked out with the management company yet why this is.

What can you show that explains why you believed the permit was the right one, what permissions/emails and info accompanied it? Did your visitors' permit have no expiry date? That would be a good point.

TurnerToken

Thank you for the quick reply.

Re stage I'm at:- The last letter I received was from Gladstones dated mid Sept which was that one where they acknowledge the Defence but say they're pursuing it anyway and providing a copy of their Directions Questionnaire. I've been communicating with them by telephone/email since then and their last email from this week gives me 7 days to make payment before proceedings are issued. I need to visit the flat tomorrow to see if I've got anything else from Gladstones/Court, but presume I won't if they're saying it hasn't been issued yet? They said not the phone they were looking at a December date for hearing.

Re permit knowledge:- I've had the permit for the 'wrong' company for years, and had no idea the companies had changed, I'm sort of led by my mother who owns the flat and she's led by the management company. I don't think there's much of a paper trail in terms of letters or emails, but I will ask her. I think in the past my mother has gone and visited the management company to collect the permits. She went and asked for more permits around a similar time to the PCN last year because she had friends visiting, and they gave her UK CPM permits, so I've had a UK CPM permit for 18 months+ now but didn't notice a difference. I will speak to the management company tomorrow to try to work out the timeline of which company managed the car park and when.

Whatever the outcome of the permit/parking management company situation, I just need to put together a really strong Witness Statement then. I read in one of the threads that there should be no legal argument in my WS, but given that my Defence was so weak I hope a judge seeing it would understand why I am putting it there instead. I'd like to start my WS my highlighting how their awful particulars meant I didn't even understand the claim against me and so this prejudiced my ability to defend my claim.

KeithP

You really must stop phoning them.

You have no record of those conversations and you have no proof of what was said by either side.

TurnerToken

Will do. I only spoke to them once, the rest was by email. The conversation was fairly inconsequential anyway. They just said that I didn't have a valid permit on display, needed to fill in directions if I wanted an oral hearing, that they were open to settlement and would email me the photos.

In hindsight, and having read a lot of the threads on this forum, I know it is foolish to have expected them to be reasonable but given that it was a PCN given outside my home when I had a permit displayed I assumed there must have been a mistake.

I have to confess I am starting to doubt whether I'll be able to successfully defend the claim. I'm away a lot of December, so an in person Court date for December would be unmanageable for me, so not sure if my chances of being successful are as good for a paper hearing.

twhitehousescat

TurnerToken wrote: »

Will do. I only spoke to them once, the rest was by email. The conversation was fairly inconsequential anyway. They just said that I didn't have a valid permit on display, needed to fill in directions if I wanted an oral hearing, that they were open to settlement and would email me the photos.

In hindsight, and having read a lot of the threads on this forum, I know it is foolish to have expected them to be reasonable but given that it was a PCN given outside my home when I had a permit displayed I assumed there must have been a mistake.

I have to confess I am starting to doubt whether I'll be able to successfully defend the claim. I'm away a lot of December, so an in person Court date for December would be unmanageable for me, so not sure if my chances of being successful are as good for a paper hearing.

you will be able to enter dates you are not available

TurnerToken

Thank you. Do I stand a much better chance if I have an in person hearing or would a good witness statement and evidence mean a paper hearing will be just as likely to be successful?

KeithP

Obviously with a paper hearing the Defendant will have no opportunity to ask questions of the Claimant, nor indeed challenge anything the Claimant may get wrong - either by mistake or intentionally.

Firstly it was "it will be difficult to fit in my busy life".
Doesn't twhitehousescat's post help with that?

Or is there now some other reason?

Natural apprehension is perfectly understandable.
Have you seen this short video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n93eoaxhzpU

twhitehousescat

I would NOT ask for a paper hearing , you will not be there to challenge their lies and deceit , and also the inflated costs they will ask for #


make the !!!!!!s work for there money , you could (easily) end up with money for your wages in your pocket and the smug feeling when you know how much they have wasted on the case

Coupon-mad

Just because Gs said they were ''looking for a court date in December'', doesn't mean you are looking for that date too! Guess why they said that? Because they know most people would find it hard to fit in before Christmas and might be more likely to give up and pay!

Also, the hearing is unlikely to be in December IMHO, because:

- the courts and most solicitors' offices both routinely close for 2 weeks (2nd half of December entirely) so that only leaves the first 2 weeks, and

- you can state on your DQ you are NOT available then!

If you have not yet had a DQ N180 from the courts you can download one easily online.