Safeguarding savings and home if Care is required

xylophone

The question is how do I do that? My Solicitor is suggesting that the property be put in my sole name, with my husband’s agreement.

We are going round in circles.....
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74953128#Comment_74953128

Have you read https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs39_paying_for_care_in_a_care_home_if_you_have_a_partner_fcs.pdf in full?

Your current property is owned as joint tenants so the presumption is that this is the arrangement that suited your husband before dementia set in.

You have PoA in Scotland for your husband but English PoA is still being arranged.

As PoA your decision must be in the best interests of your husband.


Does your husband have capacity to agree to the new property's being registered in your sole name? Have you asked his psychiatrist?


Even if he has capacity, he would be making this decision with the deliberate intent of avoiding paying care fees should this become necessary in the future?

It seems to me ( but I am no expert) that you/he need to avoid taking any action that could be construed as deliberate deprivation of assets.

If the current property is registered in joint names, then the preservation of the status quo is what would be expected in the new?

If your husband goes into care, the property will not be considered in the assessment as you will still occupy it.

His assets will be considered - the arrangements regarding his pension are fully explained in the Age UK fact sheet. (Page 8)



Should you sell later on, it is possible that his share of the sale proceeds may be considered in the assessment of his fees - again, see Age UK fact sheet (page 10).

Has your solicitor read the fact sheet? Is he still content with the advice to transfer the property into your sole name?

Keep_pedalling

I can’t really see any issue with the house being in you name solely. As it stands it is totally disregarded when assessing your husbands contribution to his care so it does not fall under deliberate deprivation of assets, as would be the case if your were moving all your savings to your name.

oliveoil54

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

I can’t really see any issue with the house being in you name solely. As it stands it is totally disregarded when assessing your husbands contribution to his care so it does not fall under deliberate deprivation of assets, as would be the case if your were moving all your savings to your name.

Thank you all so much for your replies.

Spoke to Solicitor again this morning and he assured me that it was quite acceptable and had done this with other clients a number of times.

However the savings are in my name, but this was done when husband was working about 10 years ago and paying high income tax, because I don’t pay any income tax at all. But they still are in my name. Would this affect any claim? I understood that they don’t take my savings into account?

xylophone

However the savings are in my name, but this was done when husband was working about 10 years ago and paying high income tax, because I don’t pay any income tax at all.

This was common where spouses were on different tax bands and often recommended.

It did mean that the cash was an absolute gift to the spouse so that had she/he chosen to gamble the lot on the 2.20 at Chepstow or run off with the milkman, the other party would have no grounds to demand the money back.

There was no "deprivation" intent here.

Of course, had things gone the other way and it was the spouse to whom the gift had been made who needed care, then all those savings would have been taken into account.

I note what you have said about your solicitor's advice.

You also said

He’s suggested with my husband’s consent that we put the new property in sole name.

My question still stands - is your husband capable of giving consent?

Does your solicitor advise that this does not matter?

oliveoil54

xylophone wrote: »

This was common where spouses were on different tax bands and often recommended.

It did mean that the cash was an absolute gift to the spouse so that had she/he chosen to gamble the lot on the 2.20 at Chepstow or run off with the milkman, the other party would have no grounds to demand the money back.

There was no "deprivation" intent here.

Of course, had things gone the other way and it was the spouse to whom the gift had been made who needed care, then all those savings would have been taken into account.

I note what you have said about your solicitor's advice.

You also said



My question still stands - is your husband capable of giving consent?

Does your solicitor advise that this does not matter?

Yes he does the Solicitor had a chat to him this morning and he thought husband understood.

Husband had also read the Age Uk Fact sheet and it was he that pointed out something I hadn’t really considered regarding the advice about if it was in Joint names and I had to sell to move again, by that time he might not be capable of giving his permission for me to take either a share of his pension (because we currently live off his as mine is poor) or a portion of his share of the property to buy a new house. The unpleasant thing about his condition is that currently he is very aware of it. He’s constantly saying how sorry he is for being like this, it’s such a role reversal for him, as I was usually the dependent one.

xylophone

Very well then - your husband is capable of giving consent and is doing this on the basis that it will prevent his share of the property proceeds being considered in the event that you sell in the future.

Is this then "deliberate deprivation of assets"? Check with your solicitor.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/deprivation-of-assets/

oliveoil54

xylophone wrote: »

Very well then - your husband is capable of giving consent and is doing this on the basis that it will prevent his share of the property proceeds being considered in the event that you sell in the future.

Is this then "deliberate deprivation of assets"? Check with your solicitor.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/deprivation-of-assets/

No he is only agreeing to do this because he is worried that I will not have enough money to live on or be able to move house in the future if he at that time is incapable of giving his consent, for his share to be used?

Linton

xylophone wrote: »

Very well then - your husband is capable of giving consent and is doing this on the basis that it will prevent his share of the property proceeds being considered in the event that you sell in the future.

Is this then "deliberate deprivation of assets"? Check with your solicitor.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/deprivation-of-assets/

Whether it is deprivation of assets or not would ultimately be decided by a judge. The OP may well not get an absolute guarantee at this stage. Even if it were to be regarded as DoA, which seems unlikely since the guidance on councils seems to be to disregard partial ownership of the spouses home, the OP would not be in a worse position than if the house had been jointly owned.


But this is another example of the suggestion I made before - dont go too far into the details and implications until there is an assessment from the council. You will always end up with discovering that in the extreme case the options available to a council are pretty wide ranging. However they need to be to catch the people who are really intent on cheating the system.

oliveoil54

Linton wrote: »

Whether it is deprivation of assets or not would ultimately be decided by a judge. The OP may well not get an absolute guarantee at this stage. Even if it were to be regarded as DoA, which seems unlikely since the guidance on councils seems to be to disregard partial ownership of the spouses home, the OP would not be in a worse position than if the house had been jointly owned.


But this is another example of the suggestion I made before - dont go too far into the details and implications until there is an assessment from the council. You will always end up with discovering that in the extreme case the options available to a council are pretty wide ranging. However they need to be to catch the people who are really intent on cheating the system.

Thank you again, which I’d like to think we are not ie cheating the system! I only want to be able to live reasonably ok if I have to move again, and husband understands and really supports this. Unfortunately our original financial planning had been made years ago when he took early retirement with ill health - cancer followed by stem cell transplant! Then we did the sums stupidly on an average expectation of 5% interest and me being able to get my State Pension at 60. So as a result and also that we bought our current house as a doer upper, we have had to really dip far more into our savings than we expected, hence we really want to make sure we don’t make the same mistakes again.

Keep_pedalling

Will there be any equity released with the house move?