Safeguarding savings and home if Care is required

oliveoil54

bostonerimus wrote: »

Paying for care is potentially one of the largest costs in retirement. On average someone will be in residential care for between 2 and 3 years and it'll cost about 30k/year. So it needs to be in the retirement budget and it's good that the OP is thinking about this now. However, I think this is going to be a big surprise and burden for many families as the UK doesn't have the insurance policies or infrastructure to deal with the way costs have been transferred over the last generation from NHS and local authorities to the individual.

Totally agree, just wish the proposal to cap the cost to a one off payment by the Conservative Government a while ago had agreed. It would have been a life line!

oliveoil54

My son has just found this article in the Guardian which fits my situation exactly.

It suggests that although they cant touch our new home whilst I live there, eventually once I need to sell it, although they are entitled to take up to the 50% of husband’s share of house value, in practice if I am downsizing and moving in order to be near my daughter as described in the article, they don’t take it allowing me to use it’s full value to purchase the next house.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/nov/20/should-proceeds-of-property-sale-be-used-pay-care-home-care

Anyone any idea how I establish if this is definitely fact?

lisyloo

olive - if this is your home then the house will be disregarded. see top of page 6

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs39_paying_for_care_in_a_care_home_if_you_have_a_partner_fcs.pdf

He would have to pay HIS income (not yours) minus £25 (personal allowance for clothing etc.) If the local authority are paying then you would lose his AA (which makes sense as AA is for people to attend).

Also you should talk to social services about getting care at home.
This is means tested but I did this twice (once for MIL and once for FIL) and they were allowed £300 per week income (single) before they had to pay so for them it was free.
They might provide someone so that you can have respite as a decent local suthority will recognise that's cheaper than the home alternative and it might enable you both to stay in the home longer.


I would go for joint tenants, but I am not a lawyer.
My FIL died and the house passed straight to MIL and did not need grant of probate so it made everything easy.


I've been through care at home, hospital, care home twice now and have dealt with all the finances so will help if I can.


If he does go into a home he may also qualify for funded nursing care, which is £155 per week.


Do you have family who can support you?
We have twice had to fight with the local authority to get decent homes for MIL and FIL. The second time as they wanted to split them up to save money after 60 years of marriage.
You need some good advocacy to fight for your rights i.e. some articulate people who can express themselves well.
Do you have any family who can help as this is a lot for you to take on alone.


I don't know his needs but if he can take part in activities in any way then getting a decent care home will make a massive amount of difference, not just to him but to you and the rest of the family.


We visited around 20 and most could not deal with dimensia.

sleepless_saver

xylophone wrote: »

Re AA

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs34_attendance_allowance_fcs.pdf

Your husband has been in need of assistance with everyday personal needs and required supervision for his own safety for the past six months and his condition is not expected to improve?

See above and apply.

A self funder in a Care Home continues to receive AA.

Olive,
As you are in Scotland, some of the information on this thread is not accurate as the system is different in quite a few ways from England. For example self funders in Scotland who are receiving free personal and/or nursing care are not entitled to attendance allowance. That shouldn't put you off applying for it for him, just be aware it will stop as and when the free personal care contribution starts.

Rather than try to unpick the bits in the thread that apply to Scotland and those that don't, can I suggest that you have a look at the information on paying for care homes in Scotland on this site http://www.careinfoscotland.scot , and that you follow up the information sources there.

Also, although part of your husband's pension will be taken towards costs you may be entitled to benefits in your own right, for example council tax reduction; and other benefits which would depend on whether you are able/willing to work. You could go to CAB for a benefit check.

oliveoil54

sleepless_saver wrote: »

Olive,
As you are in Scotland, some of the information on this thread is not accurate as the system is different in quite a few ways from England. For example self funders in Scotland who are receiving free personal and/or nursing care are not entitled to attendance allowance. That shouldn't put you off applying for it for him, just be aware it will stop as and when the free personal care contribution starts.

Rather than try to unpick the bits in the thread that apply to Scotland and those that don't, can I suggest that you have a look at the information on paying for care homes in Scotland on this site http://www.careinfoscotland.scot , and that you follow up the information sources there.

Also, although part of your husband's pension will be taken towards costs you may be entitled to benefits in your own right, for example council tax reduction; and other benefits which would depend on whether you are able/willing to work. You could go to CAB for a benefit check.

Reason for question is I am buying a house in Yorkshire, hence having to have new P of As made because Scottish documents are not acceptable in England!

AnotherJoe

bostonerimus wrote: »

Paying for care is potentially one of the largest costs in retirement. On average someone will be in residential care for between 2 and 3 years and it'll cost about 30k/year. So it needs to be in the retirement budget and it's good that the OP is thinking about this now. However, I think this is going to be a big surprise and burden for many families as the UK doesn't have the insurance policies or infrastructure to deal with the way costs have been transferred over the last generation from NHS and local authorities to the individual.

You can double that. I have two friends with parents in care, one paying £60k/year the other £70k.

oliveoil54

lisyloo wrote: »

olive - if this is your home then the house will be disregarded. see top of page 6

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs39_paying_for_care_in_a_care_home_if_you_have_a_partner_fcs.pdf

He would have to pay HIS income (not yours) minus £25 (personal allowance for clothing etc.) If the local authority are paying then you would lose his AA (which makes sense as AA is for people to attend).

Also you should talk to social services about getting care at home.
This is means tested but I did this twice (once for MIL and once for FIL) and they were allowed £300 per week income (single) before they had to pay so for them it was free.
They might provide someone so that you can have respite as a decent local suthority will recognise that's cheaper than the home alternative and it might enable you both to stay in the home longer.


I would go for joint tenants, but I am not a lawyer.
My FIL died and the house passed straight to MIL and did not need grant of probate so it made everything easy.


I've been through care at home, hospital, care home twice now and have dealt with all the finances so will help if I can.


If he does go into a home he may also qualify for funded nursing care, which is £155 per week.


Do you have family who can support you?
We have twice had to fight with the local authority to get decent homes for MIL and FIL. The second time as they wanted to split them up to save money after 60 years of marriage.
You need some good advocacy to fight for your rights i.e. some articulate people who can express themselves well.
Do you have any family who can help as this is a lot for you to take on alone.


I don't know his needs but if he can take part in activities in any way then getting a decent care home will make a massive amount of difference, not just to him but to you and the rest of the family.


We visited around 20 and most could not deal with dimensia.

Thank you for such a detailed reply
I understand the new house is exempt until I want to sell it, then the Authority are entitled to take up to 50% to cover any previous or future care home fees. Leaving me only 50% of the house value with to buy another house.

We are moving to England to be near my daughter and grandson who my husband adores, she will help me. They are moving to be in same area as well. However I know that the house my daughters family are buying is not their ‘forever’ house, so think in a few years they will want to move, and I’d like to be able to be near them. But if I loose 50% on the sale of this new house I won’t be able to follow them!

xylophone

But if I loose 50% on the sale of this new house I won’t be able to follow them!

Perhaps together you could buy a house with a granny annexe?

oliveoil54

xylophone wrote: »

Perhaps together you could buy a house with a granny annexe?

Don’t think that would please my Son in Law! Lol!
Love them to bits but living down bottom of garden or attached, think it’s bit too close for comfort!

Linton

oliveoil54 wrote: »

Thank you for such a detailed reply
I understand the new house is exempt until I want to sell it, then the Authority are entitled to take up to 50% to cover any previous or future care home fees. Leaving me only 50% of the house value with to buy another house.

We are moving to England to be near my daughter and grandson who my husband adores, she will help me. They are moving to be in same area as well. However I know that the house my daughters family are buying is not their ‘forever’ house, so think in a few years they will want to move, and I’d like to be able to be near them. But if I loose 50% on the sale of this new house I won’t be able to follow them!

Where did you get that understanding from? I think you are jumping too far ahead.


The first step will be an assessment of your husbands care needs and his finances. As you live in the house his 50% isnt counted as part of his assets. The assessment will determine how much if anything the council will pay towards his care costs. Any costs beyond that will have to be paid from his assets and income or by someone else. It would be up to your husband and yourself to determine what to do and make appropriate arrangements. One option that may be possible is for the council to put a charge on the house to be paid when the house is sold, but that would need to be discussed with the council after the assessment results are known. The council wont have the right to simply step in and seize 50% of the value of the house after the event or anything else. They cant take assets without your agreement or authorisation from the courts and in any case the extra costs due may well not have reached that level at that time.


I suggest you look at page 8 of http://www.housingcare.org/downloads/kbase/3091.pdf

Here it says...

However, should they (the person going into care) wish to make available part of their share of the proceeds to their partner at home to enable them to purchase an alternative property, the
local authority guidance states that it would be reasonable for such an amount to be disregarded, leaving only the surplus of their share not so used to be counted in the means test

ie if you sell the "new house" to buy another one you may be able to do so do so without any problem, but your husbands 50% share of any money left over from the sale may be taken into consideration.