Credit Card Fraud - Cards Taken Out In My Name

T-G-C

Nebulous2 wrote: »

I think this is spectacularly bad advice. The OP has already stated there are large transactions and gambling debts. That isn't a hole he is going to dig himself out of readily.

You are suggesting his sister becomes complicit in his fraud.

Therein lies possible charges, a National Hunter registration, getting all their bank accounts closed and spending the next 10 years unable to get wages paid or have a contract mobile phone, nevermind a car or mortgage.

Since you feel obliged to call me out on giving poor advice, I thought I would do the honor of returning the favor.

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"Therein lies possible charges" - From who exactly? If the lender is not told about the fraud, there will be no criminal charges. Being in debt is not a crime nor is being unable to pay it.

"a National Hunter registration" - I assume you are talking about the CIFAS fraud database. National Hunter store application data for lender cross-referencing to detect discrepancies, not the same thing at all.

"getting all their bank accounts closed" - This would only happen if CIFAS were informed and the person was added to the fraud database. That leads me back to the first point - from who exactly? If the lender is not told about the fraud, there will be no data submitted to CIFAS.

"and spending the next 10 years unable to get wages paid" - Not true - a CIFAS entry will not retain for 10 years - the actual time frame depends on the category of fraud, the nature of the fraud and when the fraud was discontinued. 6 years would be the maximum time unless re-offending in that duration which would be a separate entry. Oh, and there's no need for a bank to get paid anymore, there is this wonderful part of the sector called un-banking where many services offer their cards to people who cannot obtain a current account, with only identity checks...no credit or CIFAS check needed.

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I do not believe in shopping your own flesh and blood, especially a sibling, to the police. Finance is data on a file which falls off in 6 years, that lad's criminal record would remain for life. You would condemn his whole future over a bad move? He clearly has problems with gambling etc. which need to be addressed. Prison is not the appropriate place for that to happen. It solves nothing - even with the debt wiped, the sister is going to be riddled with emotions about sending her own brother to prison and ruining any chance of a better life. Let's face it; criminals are always labelled criminals, there is no escaping it after that.

There is a way out of this which doesn't involve police; prison or CIFAS for that matter. Even if they cannot pay the debt, as long as she does not breathe a word of it to the lender, they will be none of the wiser - it will go down as the usual case of someone taking on too much debt and cannot afford to repay. Like I said, financial penalties last for 6 years - hardly comparative to sending your own brother to prison and wrecking his entire life. This lad must still be quite young to be living under the same roof, presuming with parents in the house too. He can get his life on the straight and narrow and can work on fixing all of this for years to come - he can't do that on the inside and certainly won't have when he comes out.

OP: Tell your friend to do the right thing. If she wants to report him, then do so, but I feel there is another way out of this mess. Remember owing money out is not a crime - fraud is and if you report it, there is no going back after that, they have to prosecute him. It isn't a bit of bird and out again; it is serious time in most fraud cases and he will have a permanent record which employers performing checks will see. Prison life will screw him up even more and potentially make him violent and revengeful for putting him through the torment of living on the wing.

Sncjw

I would still report it as it has affected your credit history and also makes it even worse that it’s so close to home who has done it.

T-G-C

Sncjw wrote: »

I would still report it as it has affected your credit history and also makes it even worse that it’s so close to home who has done it.

To some people getting their family the support they need with their problems is more of a priority than some bureaucratic data on a file which falls off after 6 years.

He wouldn't have done this to be spiteful, influences like gambling addiction; depression and other factors can lead to poor decisions. I doubt he thought about the hurt or consequences he would cause before he did it.

I hope the next generation do not continue this "blood is now thinner than water" attitude.

MEM62

T-G-C wrote: »

He wouldn't have done this to be spiteful, influences like gambling addiction; depression and other factors can lead to poor decisions. I doubt he thought about the hurt or consequences he would cause before he did it.

Likewise reporting it is not spiteful either. It is a means of preventing further fraud and also opens up the potential for calling on additional help for the individual from external agencies in cases where the person committing the fraud will not engage with the immediate family.

T-G-C

MEM62 wrote: »

Likewise reporting it is not spiteful either. It is a means of preventing further fraud and also opens up the potential for calling on additional help for the individual from external agencies in cases where the person committing the fraud will not engage with the immediate family.

There will not be "further fraud" if she confronts him and he is apologetic for what he has done and would like to put things right. She also needs to scare him with the police and warn him that doing this to other people or her again will result in a prison sentence. I also previously said that if he acted the opposite upon confrontation, like not apologetic; malicious or refusing to repay the debt then reporting would be the resort option.

Reporting him will not open up access to external agencies - it will close him up in a prison cell and even if not custodial, a permanent criminal record with a tainted opportunity to build a life.

We cannot assume he will not engage with his immediate family, some people need to be confronted before they will admit they have a problem. Jumping straight to the extreme end of the spectrum without at-least trying to put things right with and for them is not the way to go.

The justice system does not reform, it punishes. If she reports him, he will not change, he will get worse. There is currently an opportunity to reform him without the involvement of the system. He needs to be given a second chance to fix his life before coming before a court.

eDicky

T-G-C wrote: »

The justice system does not reform, it punishes. If she reports him, he will not change, he will get worse.

This is true. The UK prison environment provides only encouragement and training in dishonesty, devious skill and malice.

T-G-C

eDicky wrote: »

This is true. The UK prison environment provides only encouragement and training in dishonesty, devious skill and malice.

Exactly. What you have described are the "lucky" ones who have "mates" on the inside and learn to be better criminals and break the rules alongside each other.

The others who do not conform to prison status quo are raped, assaulted, threatened, abused, used etc. with much of it done under the staff's nose.

I believe in the prison system for those who need to be kept isolated in the public interest but putting a young man in their for making a bad mistake by using his sister's details to gamble etc. because of untreated psychological issues is not right in my view. If we threw everyone into prison who made a terrible mistake like this then it would be even more crowded then it is already.

Nasqueron

What a load of nonsense on this post.

Don't snitch
Ignore fraud and live with a ruined credit rating for 6 years (or more when CCJ or worse hits)
Believe a thief and gambling addict that he'll immediately stop fraud if your response to said fraud is to ignore it

The guy is an addict and there are large debts that clearly aren't going to be paid as the gambler hasn't got any money of his own which the person will end up having to pay themselves and stop them getting a house, perhaps even renting for years to come and all because of some school yard mentality of not talking to the police ?

OP ignore all the nonsense on this post, the only way she won't be liable for the debts and ruin her life for the next 6+ years is to report the crook and let him deal with the consequence

T-G-C

Nasqueron wrote: »

What a load of nonsense on this post.

Don't snitch
Ignore fraud and live with a ruined credit rating for 6 years (or more when CCJ or worse hits)
Believe a thief and gambling addict that he'll immediately stop fraud if your response to said fraud is to ignore it

The guy is an addict and there are large debts that clearly aren't going to be paid as the gambler hasn't got any money of his own which the person will end up having to pay themselves and stop them getting a house, perhaps even renting for years to come and all because of some school yard mentality of not talking to the police ?

OP ignore all the nonsense on this post, the only way she won't be liable for the debts and ruin her life for the next 6+ years is to report the crook and let him deal with the consequence

It is not school-yard mentality for not reporting it, being a young person myself, I know how distorted the mind can be at rational thinking. Although I have never broken the law myself or done this to a family member, I still realize how this person, especially with all the assumed problems he has, may not have thought through exactly what consequences were to follow, who he was going to affect or even the fact that she would inevitably find out. In his state of mind, he simply saw an opportunity to obtain cash to satisfy his addiction.

Assuming this person is either employed or on benefits, as he can't be surviving without one of the two, once he has been confronted and realizes the issue at hand, he can concentrate on focusing some of his income towards paying the debt off. If it were a stranger who did it to her, of course there would be no roundabouts and obstacles, but this is her brother, who lives under the same roof, assuming they grew up together and know each other more than anyone else does. She needs to make that decision and I am merely asking her to exercise caution before reporting because it is a done deal once processed and no going back on it. If there is any possibility of it being dealt with in-house and he can face up to the damage he has caused and will potentially cause, then I do not see the need for law enforcement action.

Are you telling me that if your sibling did this to you, the police would be the first point of call without a second thought whatsoever? When it comes down to it, you would be thinking rationally about whether there is another way other than prosecuting them. If you can hand-on-heart say you would report them straight away, then I don't know where the days of family values have gone.

BoGoF

Poor advice someone said.....pink and fluffy garbage I say.