two questions about leaving money to friends

goodjudge

I am trying to sort out a plan for a will but have two questions, one simple, one not, about leaving money to friends.

1) do I need to put a person's full name (inc. middle names), contact details etc.? If they've got a relatively common name and we lose touch (or I get dementia, or...) how will anyone track them down if they're just in the will as 'Bob Smith'?

2) If I die first, my wife gets my half of the property and most cash, most of the rest of the cash goes to my niece and nephew, and a token amount to my step-daughter because she'll inherit 100% from her mum in due course. I also would like to give £1,000 each to 'Bob', 'Jane' and a charity. But if the worst happens and my estate plunges in value to £5,000 (or less), as far as I can tell my friends' share is a) still guaranteed, b) is paid out before my family's, and c) they'll get more than my family. Much as I like my friends, I don't want that to happen.

I have asked a couple of solicitors about Q2 and have also read up online but I still don't really understand how to combine defined cash amounts for some and percentages for others. Is it better instead to leave e.g. 75% wife, 10% each niece and nephew, and split the rest between step-daughter, friends and charity?

Yorkshireman99

goodjudge wrote: »

I am trying to sort out a plan for a will but have two questions, one simple, one not, about leaving money to friends.

1) do I need to put a person's full name (inc. middle names), contact details etc.? If they've got a relatively common name and we lose touch (or I get dementia, or...) how will anyone track them down if they're just in the will as 'Bob Smith'?

2) If I die first, my wife gets my half of the property and most cash, most of the rest of the cash goes to my niece and nephew, and a token amount to my step-daughter because she'll inherit 100% from her mum in due course. I also would like to give £1,000 each to 'Bob', 'Jane' and a charity. But if the worst happens and my estate plunges in value to £5,000 (or less), as far as I can tell my friends' share is a) still guaranteed, b) is paid out before my family's, and c) they'll get more than my family. Much as I like my friends, I don't want that to happen.

I have asked a couple of solicitors about Q2 and have also read up online but I still don't really understand how to combine defined cash amounts for some and percentages for others. Is it better instead to leave e.g. 75% wife, 10% each niece and nephew, and split the rest between step-daughter, friends and charity?

I can’t help you with Q2 as there are numerous alternatives. Q1 just give the full name and date of birth plus address at the time you make the will.

Tom99

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Re question 2, those with a fixed amount legacy will be paid their cash 1st so if you are low on cash its the remainder going to your wife which will be reduced.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]You could say – I leave the 1st £100,000 in cash to my wife and the remaining cash, if any, split, niece 35%, nephew 35%, step-daughter 1%, Bob 5%, Jane 4%, Charity 10%. [/FONT]

nom_de_plume

You can make the Will as lengthy as you like with different options to suit differing scenarios in much the same was as a Wil that leaves everything to your spouse but then offers the alternative of your children if your spouse pre-deceases you.


For example:


If my estate is less than £X,000, I wish it to be distributed thus:.....


Or you could make cash legacies of X% but subject to a maximum sum of £1,000 with the remainder to be added to the residual pot.



You could also probably future proof the sums by adding in that any cash sums mentioned are to be adjusted in line with RPI with the date of signature being the base date.


The usual caveat of get such a Will drafted by a solicitor very much applies in this instance.

AnotherJoe

goodjudge wrote: »

I am trying to sort out a plan for a will but have two questions, one simple, one not, about leaving money to friends.

1) do I need to put a person's full name (inc. middle names), contact details etc.? If they've got a relatively common name and we lose touch (or I get dementia, or...) how will anyone track them down if they're just in the will as 'Bob Smith'?

2) If I die first, my wife gets my half of the property and most cash, most of the rest of the cash goes to my niece and nephew, and a token amount to my step-daughter because she'll inherit 100% from her mum in due course. I also would like to give £1,000 each to 'Bob', 'Jane' and a charity. But if the worst happens and my estate plunges in value to £5,000 (or less), as far as I can tell my friends' share is a) still guaranteed, b) is paid out before my family's, and c) they'll get more than my family. Much as I like my friends, I don't want that to happen.

I have asked a couple of solicitors about Q2 and have also read up online but I still don't really understand how to combine defined cash amounts for some and percentages for others. Is it better instead to leave e.g. 75% wife, 10% each niece and nephew, and split the rest between step-daughter, friends and charity?

IANAL but I think you'd need to be very careful with phrases like "the rest of the cash" because that might be taken literally, eg suppose you have £500 in bank accounts and £5M of shares in Acme Widgets, then the Acme is not "cash" and so neice and nephew might not be getting much if you literally split "cash" between them.

I think you might well need to have several clauses specifying when and if "Bob,Jane and charity" get their thousand in case, as you say, the estate is poor enough that that would clear it out before the main beneficiaries.
Also be careful leaving money to charities they have a very bad reputation for using the % clause asa way of interfering with the distribution and for example not allowing relatives to keep minor keepsakes but insisting they are valued and paid for so as to ensure they get the maximum. This is more in the case where they get a larger share but why take the chance, definitely ringfence any amount left to a charity, eg "1/3 of the remainder to a maximum of £1000"

Yorkshireman99

AnotherJoe wrote: »

IANAL but I think you'd need to be very careful with phrases like "the rest of the cash" because that might be taken literally, eg suppose you have £500 in bank accounts and £5M of shares in Acme Widgets, then the Acme is not "cash" and so neice and nephew might not be getting much if you literally split "cash" between them.

I think you might well need to have several clauses specifying when and if "Bob,Jane and charity" get their thousand in case, as you say, the estate is poor enough that that would clear it out before the main beneficiaries.
Also be careful leaving money to charities they have a very bad reputation for using the % clause asa way of interfering with the distribution and for example not allowing relatives to keep minor keepsakes but insisting they are valued and paid for so as to ensure they get the maximum. This is more in the case where they get a larger share but why take the chance, definitely ringfence any amount left to a charity, eg "1/3 of the remainder to a maximum of £1000"

The OP should get a will done by a solicitor not DIY it or use a will writer.

AnotherJoe

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

The OP should get a will done by a solicitor not DIY it or use a will writer.

Agreed but since some solicitors have screwed up on wills (as we've seen posts here) no harm in OP going in with these kind of issues in mind.

getmore4less

Look at the impact on the transferable nil rate band(s) of passing assets to non spouse but them having the property.

Wife's estate could take the IHT hit.

Yorkshireman99

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Agreed but since some solicitors have screwed up on wills (as we've seen posts here) no harm in OP going in with these kind of issues in mind.

What percentage of solictor's willscause a problem? In reality the few that appear here are likely to be a tiny percentage of the total. Theey are certainly significicantly better than DIY or will writer's output!

AnotherJoe

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

What percentage of solictor's willscause a problem? In reality the few that appear here are likely to be a tiny percentage of the total. Theey are certainly significicantly better than DIY or will writer's output!

Ive no idea and am absolutely not suggesting OP does it themselves, but there's no harm and great benefit in understanding the nuances up front before you see one, rather than just washing your hands of it and pass it over to a solicitor.


Its no different to the pension forum wheres there's a stack of people there who just hand over responsibility for their financial affairs to an advisor without even attempting to understand the situation and as a result end up with a poorer solution than they could have got. Or indeed going into a garage and asking them to "fix it" rather than having a clue that (say) changing spark plugs should not cost £500 (unless you have a Beemer or a Merc of course )


So in the OP's case surely better to understand why there are say 4 clauses about passing money on rather than just be presented with a bunch of words that you dont really understand the intent of.

Yorkshireman99

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Ive no idea and am absolutely not suggesting OP does it themselves, but there's no harm and great benefit in understanding the nuances up front before you see one, rather than just washing your hands of it and pass it over to a solicitor.


Its no different to the pension forum wheres there's a stack of people there who just hand over responsibility for their financial affairs to an advisor without even attempting to understand the situation and as a result end up with a poorer solution than they could have got. Or indeed going into a garage and asking them to "fix it" rather than having a clue that (say) changing spark plugs should not cost £500 (unless you have a Beemer or a Merc of course )


So in the OP's case surely better to understand why there are say 4 clauses about passing money on rather than just be presented with a bunch of words that you dont really understand the intent of.

I take your point entirely. Nevertheless I get the impression that lots of people overthink the problem. IMHO a will should be as brief as possible so that the executor is not in any doubt and there is reduced opportunity for the family to dispute it. So I say to the OP try not to complicate matters if possible. OTOH don’t do what happened in a case well known to law students and say “All to mother.” That was, as I recall, deemed valid!