15 yr old credit card debt - can they make me pay it all back?

marple_2

I cut up my old credit cards in 1992 as I became unemployed and the balance wasnt that high, maybe £2500 over two cards, I paid back @ £10 per month per card using a payment book for 8 years until 2000. Barclaycard stopped sending payment books and i rang and spoke to someone there and theysaid the debt was probably written off as it was taking a long time to repay and the admin would have cost more.
I then moved house,( in 2000) I had my post redirected by royal mail for a year and heard nothing from barclaycard, so I assumed I had been correctly informed.
I didnt go underground, nor change my identity, I was now working and I obtained a mastercard from Lloyds and I continue to use it today with no probs.
In April 2006 I went to the Ideal Home Show at Earls Court and got approached by reps there trying to sell credit cards, so reluctantly I filled in a form,(just to get the free gift they were offering), but I didnt get the card they wrote a few weeks later and refused me, but I wasnt bothered anyway.
In Nov 2006, I get a letter from Lowell Financial, demanding I pay the still outstanding debt to them, as they had bought the debt from Barclaycard.
After all these years had passed with no communication, they also entered a default notice against my credit score.
The balance is now £1100 on one card and £370 on the other.
I wrote back and told them of my surprise hearing from someone about this after all these years but in order to bring this matter to a close I offered to pay them 40% of the debt in full and final settlement.
It has taken me a year to get a response from them, as each of their letters disregarded the fact I had written to them, and each inferred I had not made any approach to them, so the last letter i sent recorded delivery and they have since passed the lesser debt onto another company and they have just written back and offered to accept 80% of the debt, but if I pay that then they will want 80% of the greater debt too.
The last payment i made to Barclaycard was around mar 2001, and i got the letter from Lowell in Nov 2006, so it was just a few months short of the 6 yrs to allow it to be statute barred.
Can anyone advise me, as a lot of the balance was made up of old interest and after all these years I cannot believe its been brought back to haunt me.
cheers

fermi

The first thing to do (if you can) is work out whether the debt is "Statute Barred" or not.

The 6 year period runs from the date that you last acknowledged the debt in writing or by a payment in 2000.

The period does not end when they wrote you in 2006, but only when you wrote back. If you can work out those dates it will be a big help.

If that doesn't help since you acknowledged before the 6 years was up, then a CCA request would probably be a good idea. If they are unable to produce a valid CCA (as is the case with many cards before 2002), then they will be scuppered on that score.

marple_2

Cheers, but I made one last payment in early 2001 around march or april as I think thats when the last book ran out. they wrote to me in early November 2006 and I replied on 27th, so it was within the 6 yrs.
What is a CCA request and from whom do I request it? Lowell financial?

fermi

Send this to Lowells (adapted to your circumstances) with the £1 fee by recorded delivery.

1 High Street,
Newtown,
Kent
R21 4RH

November 6, 2007

The Loan Company
Company House,
Church Street,
Newtown,
Kent,
R1 7HG

Account No: 4563210025897412

Dear Sir/Madam

With reference to the above agreement, we would be grateful if you would send us a copy of this credit agreement and a full breakdown of the account including any interest or charges applied.

We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 [sections 77−79], we are entitled to receive a copy of any credit agreement and a statement of account on request.

We enclose a payment of £1 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

We understand a copy of any credit agreement along with a statement of account should be supplied within 12 working days.

We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with the request for a copy of the agreement and statement of account under these sections of the Act.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully




Mr A N Other

fermi

If they do manage to find an agreement, then you will need to work out if it is enforceable.

(Pinched from CAG)

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)
PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE
CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations
(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

**What do we mean by unenforceable?
In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.
Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?
When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.
When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

The Pescribed Terms are these

A Amount of credit
A term stating the amount of credit

B Repayments
A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-
(a) Number of repayments;
(b) Amount of repayments;
(c) Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d) Dates of repayments;
(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

C Rate of interest
A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement
D Credit limit
This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

---

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

BC and D Apply

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
• And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement
A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

A and B apply

For a Hire Agreement

B is Applicable

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.
Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date.

If they come back with an agreement and you are not sure if it is valid or not, then just ask.

GeorgeUK

Totally agree with Fermi - alot if the Debt Collection Agencies try it on, buying old debts that are not enforcable and asking for payment. Usually they also threaten court action too.

This thread looks at a few different scenarios, but as stated - If they can't produce a Customer Credit Agreement (CCA) then you shouldn't be paying anything.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=578486

fermi

GeorgeUK wrote: »

This thread looks at a few different scenarios, but as stated - If they can't produce a Customer Credit Agreement (CCA) then you shouldn't be paying anything.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=578486

Yep. With particular note to weller711's (post #7) and their success with the DCA's.

marple_2

Thank you so much Fermi and GeorgeUK, I feel a lot better already, we're not talking about a great deal of money here but its the principal after all these years, someone suddenly dragging it up from the past, not to mention the fact that I now have a code 8 default on my credit history for something i thought was dead and buried.
I will write to the DCA today and request a CCA from them and see what happens, so watch this space as Im sure to keep you informed of the progress.
Thanks once again in anticipation and Thank you Martin for a great website.

marple_2

well I wrote to the DCA on 6 November for a copy of the CCA and and now 21 days have passed, all I have received is an acknowledgement that they will endeavour to furnish me with same within the 12 day period, and they go on to say, 'but of course, this is dependant on us obtaining this information from the original creditor'.
so 12 working days have passed and no CCA, as the credit cards in question were originally obtained way back in 1975/6 I doubt there is a CCA in existence, unless the DCA use dirty tricks to manufacture one.
where do I stand at present?
Though as far as they are concerned I still owe them but is it not enforceable without CCA?

fermi

This thread needs an update, since the OP coundn't find this old thread.

So from: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=792189

marple wrote: »

I posted a thread on here back in November 07, as a Debt Collection Co had bought an old debt from Barclaycard.

A debt which I had been paying off with a payment book to Barclaycard and I was told by a member of Barclaycard staff that it would prob be written off as I was only paying £10 per month, and this all started back in 1993.I carried on paying with the book until 2000, when I moved house and I had my post redirected for a year and after the book ran out didnt hear from Barlclaycard or anyone else till Nov 2006.

They were Lowell Financial, a name which I know keeps cropping up.

They have now engaged the services of a company called RED Debt collection services and I wrote and asked them to provide a copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement on 11 November 2007, including a full breakdown of account including interest charged etc and enclosed my £1 fee and understood they had to do this within 12 working days.

Apart from an acknowldgement in November saying they had noted my request, they did not write back to me with anything else until today 11 march 08.

They have sent me what looks like the copy of an original agreement but no breakdown of account or interest charges and certainly not within the 12 days.

They just keep saying I owe the full amount and want payment within 7 days, how do I stand now?

I look forward to receiving your comments

fermi

Ok. Does this agreement contain the prescribed terms that it must under the CCA74?

For a Credit Card I think it is:

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;
(b) Amount of repayments;
(c) Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d) Dates of repayments;
(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

C Rate of interest
A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit
This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

Is the agreement signed by yourself?

Do you have a scanner or digital camera you can use so that we (or other people) can take a look?