Access to Shared Shed - now a rental property

mrschaucer

How about sending the neighbours a letter setting out the legal facts as you understand them (or maybe a solicitor could draw something up).
1) This is a joint shed, part of which has been erected on your land with your permission.
2) You have right of access to a portion of this shed which is on your land and equivalent to the size of your old toilet.
3) You have the right to use space in this shed equivalent to the size of your old toilet.
4) You give your neighbour permission to use "your" space for storage at the moment, but reserve the right to rescind this permission at any time.
etc etc
As I understand it, no successful claim for adverse possession can be made if the owner of land has granted discretionary permission for the would-be claimer to use it?

davidmcn

mrschaucer wrote: »

1) This is a joint shed, part of which has been erected on your land with your permission.
2) You have right of access to a portion of this shed which is on your land and equivalent to the size of your old toilet.
3) You have the right to use space in this shed equivalent to the size of your old toilet.

3a) You have the right to use the shed as your toilet...

mrschaucer

davidmcn wrote: »

3a) You have the right to use the shed as your toilet...

A great improvement!

Okrib

I would absolutely get a legal letter drafted based on what you have said. Your neighbours have no right to do what they are doing.

Is there anything to stop you creating a door from your side? Even if it means knocking out some bricks?

You need to restate your rights over your land to avoid the neighbours claiming it after a period of time.

xylophone

I have a traditional terraced house with an old style outside toilet which is on my neighbours land but which I have access to

Thank you for all the feedback so far - it is definitely my land, it just happens to be at the bottom of the neighbours garden. There is a brown access path marked on the land registry and the wording in the document also talks about access to the WC

You own a piece of land at the end of your neighbours' garden?

You own the shed that stands on that piece of land?

Your neighbours own a shed at the end of their garden which formerly shared a wall with your shed?

You permitted the neighbours to "knock through" so ending up with one shed and one door?

Your deeds grant you right of access to your land and shed?

Your neighbours are refusing you access to your property?

Consult your solicitor and if necessary sue?

Davesnave

xylophone wrote: »

Consult your solicitor and if necessary sue?

I'd avoid court unless and until it became absolutely necessary. Not only is the expense undesirable, but the judge would expect simple negotiation/ mediation to have been tried first.


The neighbour hasn't been properly challenged yet and had the implications of the title docs made clear, via the OPs solicitor if necessary.

xylophone

but the judge would expect simple negotiation/ mediation to have been tried first.

If the circumstances are as outlined in my post above, then the law must be on the side of the OP?

As for challenging the neighbour, I'd say that the OP/OP's mother have already done this.

I have asked for a key and my mother even spoke to the neighbour when she was arranging the letting agent (I am out of the country) and they have refused to pass one over saying that I can ask them whenever I want access

And the OP shouldn't have to ask - access appears to be her right.

Davesnave

xylophone wrote: »

If the circumstances are as outlined in my post above, then the law must be on the side of the OP?

As for challenging the neighbour, I'd say that the OP/OP's mother have already done this.

And the OP shouldn't have to ask - access appears to be her right.

I am not denying any of the things you say, just pointing out that it's best to show that all avenues have been fully explored.

I'm still not clear that a copy of the title outlining these rights has been placed in front of the neighbour, for example.

None of us knows what will happen when the OP demands a key to the shed, without conditions, or even gets someone disable the lock, if necessary.

Suing people should be a last resort, but you'll note that my first post mentioned the possibility of using the courts. I'm not arguing against it, just suggesting a hierarchy of actions.

Formosa

G_M wrote: »

Well despite my earlier request you've still not quoted in full, so any legal advice must be qualified with "it appears"....


But 'it appears' from what you say as if you need to take action. That means one or more of:


* come to an amicable agreement whereby you, and all occupants /residents of your property have un-obstructed access both across the brown access path and into/ont the sed/land that you own.


* take legal action to enforce the access acros and into.....


* take physical action to enforce the access acros and into..... By that I don't mean violence (!), but I do mean breaking the lock if necessary. The lock is onto your land/property, and the law certainly permits you to break into your own house!

Sorry for not quoting directly - I do not have the full documents with me as I am living overseas and I have left them in the UK. From the part of the land registry doc that i do I have i can quote
"a right of way over the land coloured brown on the said plan" - this is the path through their garden to the old WCs at the bottom of their garden

I am not sure if this is relevant for access but it links to the WC:
"the wall separating the WC hereby assigned from the adjoining WC shall be party walls and maintained and repaired accordingly..." and then continues about the maintenance of pipes etc

My mother has consulted a solicitor who confirmed that the portion of the WC that was mine and is now part of the shed is legally mine and I access so I am confident that I have a right to it but it is just organising access and use.

I had also been emailing them regularly but in the last email I received in reply the neighbour asked not to be emailed again as she was too busy and found it stressful. My mother also agrees that they have essentially tried to take possession from the off and tricked me into it so maybe a strong final email suggesting I may need to seek legal advice and that costs would be their responsibility and something about dividing the shed / another access door (although when I mentioned that as a possibility before they said that wasn't an option due to the redesign needed)

Davesnave

Formosa wrote: »

.....maybe a strong final email suggesting I may need to seek legal advice and that costs would be their responsibility and something about dividing the shed / another access door (although when I mentioned that as a possibility before they said that wasn't an option due to the redesign needed)

OK, this is somewhat clearer now.

Division is the only option, as the title documents haven't been amended and still state there should be a party wall. Just like the right of way, which cannot be extinguished, there is no way the neighbour may legitimately argue against it.

I would ask your solicitor to write to them pointing these things out in the strongest terms and advising that immediate, unconditional access must be granted, so reinstatement of the dividing wall may begin.

All the hogwash about stress and the impossibility of re-design should be ignored. How you alter the portion that is yours to ensure your continued access is none of the neighbour's business.

Having gained access, follow through by having the original dividing wall/door reinstated, or if access is not provided, then have your solicitor use the court to order the same.