New puppy, fireworks and a show for the neighbours!

Raksha

It's important that people do NOT coax him, but let him approach in his own time. A nervous dog is far happier if he isn't the centre of attention.

If you feel you need professional help, the best place to go is your vets and ask for a referral to a local behaviourist - look for PAACT, UKRCB or APBC members.

zebidee1

Thanks Raksha. I probably worded that badly...when I said coax I didn't mean as in the 'persuade' sense....I meant more encourage by being patient and not trying to entice him iyswim. Lol....I'm probably still not being very clear am I?

Anyway, I think outside help would be good but there are no PAACT members near us. Will check the other organisations you mentioned.

owtfornowt_2

Don't know if you watch the 'Dog Whisperer' on digital but I saw one programme where Cesar helped a dog who was nervous.

Basically, the dog was in his crate/bed and Cesar slowly backed his way in(crouched down) to the bed - as dogs obviously smell the back end of each other. The dog didn't try to scarper and after a while they moved towards the front of the bed with Cesar 'being pack leader' then it was the 'assertive energy' for the rest of the training.

Here's his website. Hope your little woofter gets better soon.
http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/

Raksha

Please please please, do NOT use Mr. Milan's techniques - his programmes carry warnings that you should't try their techniques at home for very good reason - he often uses 'flooding' which is basically surrounding a dog with the thing they are fearful of - what Mr Milan describes as 'coping' is in fact shutting down - so bloomin' terrified they just can't cope.....

pboae

I completely agree Raksha, how did terrifying dogs into submission ever become entertainment? :-(

Raksha

pboae wrote: »

I completely agree Raksha, how did terrifying dogs into submission ever become entertainment? :-(

I caught a small piece of his programme yesterday - a small staffie type (could have had some French Bulldog in there too) was being yanked about and forced to sit on the door step of a neighbours house where another dog was going BANANAS behind a shut door. Eventually the poor wee dog lay down - victory for Cesear again - but I wonder how many viewers realised this poor little dog was wearing a 'prong collar' - a collar with inverted prongs which dug into the dogs neck every time Cesear yanked the lead - we're not even talking about the dog being responsible for the pain because he was pulling on the lead - the only person putting any tension on that lead was the jerk on the end of it!!!

owtfornowt_2

I only meant it as an example of what I had seen - hence the link to the website for further information.

WeirdoMagnet

owtfornowt wrote: »

I only meant it as an example of what I had seen - hence the link to the website for further information.

I don't think Raksha or Pboae meant anything personally towards you, owtfornowt - they were just drawing attention to the fact that despite being on TV, Cesar Milan uses methods which are at best dubious, and at worse are downright cruel. He subscribes to the Dominance Theory, which is thought to be flawed (more about that here), uses methods like 'flooding', alpha rolls and cruel pieces of equipment (like the prong collar that Raksha mentions). It may appear to the layman that he works minor miracles in a short space of time, but who knows what problems he actually causes by utilising these old-fashioned methods? Many of the problems that he claims to fix could of course be more effectively remedied by using modern, positive training techniques.

Sorry to take this OT.

zebidee1

Thought I would update this thread, you never know if there's someone out there with similar problems and it might help them in some way.

We got a dog trainer in to see Harley as things are not getting any better. In fact, they are getting gradually worse as Harley is now just beginning to bark at people if they come anywhere near him. Apparently this is classed as 'fear induced aggression' and if left untreated there is a possibility he could become generally aggressive and may end up biting.

He has also had a bad experience with another lab puppy who is a girl only one day older than him. She is very boisterous and after chasing him round our garden, she growled at him, wrapped her mouth round his neck and pinned him down.

We were advised NOT to take him to a class as it was felt that he would feel even more intimidated with all the other dogs and owners and he'd become more tense and anxious and that we would be best with a one to one situation for a while.

We had a home visit and the trainer said she had not come across a lab with this issue and she felt it was beyond simple training and that we really needed the help of a behaviourist.

We spoke to a behaviourist on the phone who asked many questions and said he believed that Harley's issues may be a mixture of genes as well as poor socialisation. He felt that Harley may be able to be helped but wasn't sure how much. He told us to think about whether we wanted his input or not (the cost is £135 for the first visit :eek: ) before committing ourselves but there's not really anything to think about, my poor, cute, furrybutt puppy is growing into a tense nervous dog despite our textbook efforts to avoid this.

We can't get an appointment until the end of January as he is fully booked but has suggested we try clicker training him in the meantime which might help him associate strangers with treats. The idea is that we click as soon as he sees a person far away and treat. Eventually he should think person = treat and this should lessen his anxiety and hopefully he will learn to tolerate people getting closer.

I did read up on clicker training but I think I've forgotten a lot of it so I'll need to go search out old threads.

I'll update once we've seen the behaviourist if anyone is interested?

WeirdoMagnet

Sounds like good advice zebidee. I'm glad you found a trainer that uses positive training techniques. Is he APDT registered?

Gradual desensitisation is an excellent way of getting your dog used to strangers. You could also try the "food bar technique" - where you use something like squeezy cheese to distract your dog.

I don't know if I've mentioned before, but if you post on the training & behaviour forum on DogPages, you get plenty of excellent advice from experienced trainers. The forum "encourages owners to learn the skills to train their dogs with modern non-coercive methods and not to train with pain", so you'll get good advice using positive training techniques.

You can use clicker training for teaching anything, and if it were me, I'd use your clicker training for everyday things like sit, lie and for your gradual desensitisation too. Obviously you have to 'prime' the clicker beforehand - there's more about that in the links below.

Have a look on Karen Pryor's Clicker Training Website or Kay Lawrences' Learning About Dogs Site for more about clicker training. There are some links to some good videos, or you can find them on YouTube too.

Keep us updated & good luck!