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Speeding fine...with a twist!

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Motoring
27 replies 3.1K views
2

Replies

  • Car_54Car_54 Forumite
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    kingstreet wrote: »
    Have you received a S172 notice requesting identity of driver?

    If you have, it may be an idea to request "any photographs which may assist with the identification of the driver," without mentioning proof or evidence, as at this time, you are entitled to neither.
    The offence was reported by an officer using a hand-held 'gun'. There will be no photo.
  • Car_54Car_54 Forumite
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    canonman wrote: »
    I was driving home 7pm 3 months ago down a road i know well, its a back road that passes a village just avoiding an A road. The road passes down a new housing development that is being built. I come round the corner when out rushes this female officer, i thought she was going to jump out, i hit the breaks and she has a speed gun. She was holding it like a shotgun, aims it at me and i continue driving giver her hand gestures.
    Holding it "like a shotgun" needs two hands. Did she have a third hand for the gestures?


    Were the gestures a signal to stop? If so, you've committed another offence.
  • prowlaprowla Forumite
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    Well, I've learned something from this thread; https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits states:
    A speed limit of 30 miles per hour (mph) or 48 kilometres per hour (km/h) usually applies, unless you see signs showing otherwise.
    I had previously thought it only applied to built-up areas & roads with street lights; from the HC https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/control-of-the-vehicle.html #124:
    The presence of street lights generally means that there is a 30 mph (48 km/h) speed limit unless otherwise specified.
    The key thing in the HC #125 is:
    A speed limit of 30 miles per hour (mph) or 48 kilometres per hour (km/h) usually applies, unless you see signs showing otherwise.
    So, in this case I would say the following might be worth checking out:
    1. Were there any street lights (ie. the limit is 30)?
    2. Were there any signs saying 30 (the OP says not)?
    3. Is a development in progress but not yet opened a "built-up area"?
    4. In the absence of the above, was there a preceding sign stating a higher speed limit applied to that stretch of road?

    Some things which aren't going to help are:
    • The officer rushing out (but not onto) the road is not a mitigation, as the OP doesn't know if they were trying to get them to slow down for a hazard or something; the HC states:
    You must obey signals given by police officers, traffic officers and traffic wardens
    so failing to slow down when/if indicated you should breaks that.
    • Driving 200 miles a day, whilst it may be an indicator of experience, it is not a licence to ignore the law; it can lead to lack of attention.
    (All but the quoted items are my opinion, IANAL, etc.)
  • edited 13 October 2018 at 10:30AM
    canonmancanonman Forumite
    95 posts
    edited 13 October 2018 at 10:30AM
    Hi all thanks for the reply so far,
    • Its a company car so i assume that's why it has taken so long to get to me!

    what a crock, i highly doubt she jumped in front of you
    - she ran from behind her car,to the side of the car to use her speed gun. The way she moved to the position she stood was dangerous an stupid. Hence why i called to complain.

    https://ibb.co/ent9G9

    To the left is where she was parked and as i drove round the corner just behind me, she was behind the panda car or doing something else, when she "heard" me coming round the corner she then pulled her stunt!

    This road is dead this time of day!


    Why were you not keeping to the 30mph


    I was not, the road changes from 30mph / 40mph quickly and there has never been and sign posts, the sat nav on the BMW and on a tom tom list it as 40mph

    For this i wont be given points i have been offered a course, but i have been driving nearly 8 years 200 miles a day all over the UK and never had a speeding ticket or motoring offence so i intend to keep it that way.

    - Reported this the night of the event
    - Was told by a senior officer that they are not actively enforcing speeding fines
    - Dropped the case based on the officers information
    - Explained there is no clear sign posts for 30mph
  • AndyMc.....AndyMc..... PPR
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    canonman wrote: »
    Hi all thanks for the reply so far,
    • Its a company car so i assume that's why it has taken so long to get to me!

    what a crock, i highly doubt she jumped in front of you
    - she ran from behind her car,to the side of the car to use her speed gun. The way she moved to the position she stood was dangerous an stupid. Hence why i called to complain.

    https://ibb.co/ent9G9

    To the left is where she was parked and as i drove round the corner just behind me, she was behind the panda car or doing something else, when she "heard" me coming round the corner she then pulled her stunt!

    This road is dead this time of day!


    Why were you not keeping to the 30mph



    I was not, the road changes from 30mph / 40mph quickly and there has never been and sign posts, the sat nav on the BMW and on a tom tom list it as 40mph

    For this i wont be given points i have been offered a course, but i have been driving nearly 8 years 200 miles a day all over the UK and never had a speeding ticket or motoring offence so i intend to keep it that way.

    - Reported this the night of the event
    - Was told by a senior officer that they are not actively enforcing speeding fines
    - Dropped the case based on the officers information
    - Explained there is no clear sign posts for 30mph

    So if you're taking the course what's the point of this thread?
  • edited 13 October 2018 at 10:53AM
    TonyMMMTonyMMM Forumite
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    edited 13 October 2018 at 10:53AM
    Assuming you weren't stopped and spoken to at the time - have you ever received a s172 request, addressed to you, where you have confirmed that you were the driver at the time ?

    If not - how have you now received an offer of a course ?


    Assuming you did confirm that you were driving, then you need to decide whether to take the course or not (if you don't it will proceed to court where you can give your evidence). The offer of the course will be time limited, so don't delay too much on this.

    Note that your defence needs to be concentrated on showing that you were not speeding - the actions of the officer may have been poor for all sorts of reasons but that doesn't necessarily prevent your prosecution, make their evidence invalid, nor alter the facts about your speed.

    If you think the limit on the road is incorrect or not signed properly then get the evidence to show that - look at the TRO (Traffic Regulation Order) which sets the limit - and learn what the law is on the way a 30mph limit is shown (e.g. what signage is allowed or required).

    It appears from the screenshot that there is a system of streetlighting which means 30mph (unless otherwise indicated).If you post a link to the actual location on googlemaps then a better view of the limit can be given
  • Car_54Car_54 Forumite
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    prowla wrote: »
    I had previously thought it only applied to built-up areas & roads with street lights; from the HC https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/control-of-the-vehicle.html #124:So, in this case I would say the following might be worth checking out:
    1. Were there any street lights (ie. the limit is 30)?
    2. Were there any signs saying 30 (the OP says not)?
    3. Is a development in progress but not yet opened a "built-up area"?


    1. Yes, from the photo supplied in post #15

    2. In a "restricted road" (i.e. with street-lighting) 30 mph repeater signs are unnecessary, and indeed prohibited. There must be terminal sign(s), but their absence is not in itself a defence.

    3. Whether or not an area is "built-up" has no bearing on speed limits.
  • sevenhillssevenhills Forumite
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    Car_54 wrote: »
    1. Yes, from the photo supplied in post #15

    2. In a "restricted road" (i.e. with street-lighting) 30 mph repeater signs are unnecessary, and indeed prohibited. There must be terminal sign(s), but their absence is not in itself a defence.

    3. Whether or not an area is "built-up" has no bearing on speed limits.


    Is there a need for speed camera warning signs?

  • Car_54Car_54 Forumite
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    sevenhills wrote: »
    Is there a need for speed camera warning signs?
    There was no speed camera! And in any case, there is never a need.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
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    MoneySaving Newbie
    canonman wrote: »
    Story

    Sorry but that's about the only bit I believed in your original post.
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