Advice - cel

Arkers

Good evening,

I've read quite a few of the POPLA decisions and the Newbie 3 stickie. I can't seem to find a scenario like mine: Im the RK of the vehicle identified in the PCN, the user on the day of the alleged parking violation was my 18 yr old who attends a college one day a week as part of his apprenticeship He is in his second year at college, but he only started driving the car to college this term. The car was previously registered under the college's permit scheme last year when it was used by my eldest child. The college over a period of time unknown has changed from a permit pay/display scheme last year to an app based payment system. From what I'm led to believe the only method of payment is via this app, which is on some or all of the signage (although I have no idea at this stage). No other method of payment is clearly identified. My son attended college on 1 October when this new parking ANPR system went live. He forgot his phone, and could not pay. He thought it would be OK as the car had been registered at the college last year so he thought he could pay the following week, all payments were made last year by me other son. The charge we are talking about is £1 for the whole day! I worked out that it would be approx 10 pence per hour if you stayed until the college closed. He could even claim this charge back from his employer, so it was never his intention to avoid the charge. He forgot to sort out the £1 payment for this day, I was away at the time or I may have been able to sort things out with the college. He is guilty of being a disorganised teenager. He had no idea that the ANPR system run by CEL had gone live I believe for the first time on October 1, apparently I have been told the cameras have been up for sometime, but only switched on on Monday 1 October. The college tell me they have had staff in the car park on occasion which would be helpful for those full time, but not one day a week apprentice on day release. My son never encountered any staff. I as the RK have subsequently received the PCN for £60.

Apparently the college had informed all the students, not clear how, but my son has not received any information relating to the changeover or how to go about sorting out payment on the app. The college have since told me it's clearly on the signage! They never informed his employers who have over 30 apprentices at this college. I have only been told of this verbally. Who could have passed on the information.

I copied and pasted the wording from this site for the first appeal, on the CEL website (no I haven't mentioned the driver) but then thought I'd start looking at the bigger picture.

The PCN on the back mentions PoFA Sch 4 - is this sufficient for the liability to pass to me?

The BPA code states that that when there is a change of parking terms that there should be a grace period - my interpretation would this be correct? (precedent/case law for this).

Possible GEOPL £1 charge £60 PCN? can a college that only charge £1 expect CEL to charge £60. In contrast to Beavis there was a charge in our case albeit small (contract made?),and the loss would be a lot less then £60.

Signage - I've no idea I'll have to drive 15 miles to take a look.

Tried to appeal to the college on the basis of grace period due to changeover, not interested. Pretty disgusting as the most of these young people probably haven't got a spare £60. I would say most of these young people are under 19. I'm surprised by the college's attitude that they think it's acceptable to let one of these firms carryout this practice on their land. There response was that most of the students have followed the rules and as my son didn't the PCN was acceptable, and they would not intervene. However if I got any PCN's to let them know???

Am I heading in the right direction? does anyone know of a successful POPLA appeal I could use as a template. I started to read through some of the decisions and will continue with this.

Arkers

KeithP

Have CEL responded to your initial appeal yet?

Fruitcake

Forget GPEOL; that's three years out of date.

The NTK must meet each and every requirement of the POFA to transfer liability to the keeper. You need to compare the NTK wording line by line with the POFA to determine whether they have complied with it or not. Dates are just one point they need to meet.

If you have a PoPLA code, then use all the template points from post 3 of the NEWBIES.

Not the landowner.
No standing to bring charges in their name.
Not the person liable for the change.
None POFA compliant NTK.
Failure to meet the BPA CoP
Inadequate signage

should be your starting points.

Get pics of the site including entrance and signs. Check if they are high up on poles, adequate font size, especially the charge, behind bushes, cannot be seen from parking spaces.

Complain to your MP and the MP where the college is located. Tell the college you want proof that they sent the information about the change in payment. Ask them what people without smartphones are supposed to do.

Arkers

Thanks Fruitcake,
Still waiting for the initial rejection. Have requested a complaint procedure for the college. Booked an appointment with my MP, but considering writing first. Good point about college MP, will do this. Contacted my son's employer to get them to inform their apprentices, but understandingly the can't help with my case (although at least 3 others from the same group have received a PCN). My son says they are all worried, due to the nature of the document. They think it's a FPN, from what I've been told by my son. Contacted the local press, but not holding my breath. I'll update. Totally wrong to target this age group. A lot like my son have only recently passed their test and are still learning about the real world.