S87 (ii) Cigarette litter advice

UsernameValid78

Hello there.

I was advised to post here as I have a query regards a letter I received today dated 5th October 2018

The alleged offence took place on 5th September 2018 and stated that a council officer saw me “throwing cigarette litter from the drivers window at the above time and location”

Firstly let me say a couple of things. I’m a law abiding man with a respectable job (staff nurse) and this offence allegedly took place a month ago. Also this is my first ever offence of any kind, so I’m completely unaware of what I should do regards this. I hold my hands up and admit that yes I smoke in my car and have on occasion when finishing a cigarette, instead of letting it burn in my car... thrown it out of the window as I drive (thrown? More like dropped tbh). So for them to be issuing this, leads me to believe it isn’t a case of mistaken identity and I will admit I was wrong and am happy to pay. However I’ve got a few questions I’d like to ask first, and I’m here to seek some advice on what to do.

Firstly, they don’t know it was me. They’ve sent this to my address as I’m the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. Yes I probably did do it, but don’t they need some sort of evidence? On his occasion it might not have been me doing this, could be that as I drove past the council officer, a cigarette butt was disturbed on the ground next to my car and looked like I’d dropped it.
So can I request evidence? And if so, and they have no evidence then should I contest it?

The second question is, can they prove this was done intentionally? I’ve read examples of people saying this happened accidentally etc. I have my window down whilst driving and on a few occasions, the wind has pushed the cigarette out of my hand and to avoid a traffic accident I’ve carried on driving. So do they need to provide evidence of intent to litter as well?

The final question is, with this offence taking place over a month ago, am I entitled to the “discount rate” on the FPN?
It states that Fixed Penalty is £80, and says “ Including discounted amounts for payment with 10 days as appropriate” So I’ve just received this today 8/10/2018, and the FPN was issued 5/10/2018 then I should have until 15/10/2018 to be entitled to the discount rate yes?

I’m happy to admit I’m wrong here, if they can provide evidence of this....
Do they need evidence? Do they need to prove intent to litter? Should I contest it? Or just take a slap on the wrists and accept my wrong-doing. And if the advice I receive here tells me it’s best just to pay, then will I be able to pay the discount rate of £50? I can just about afford the £50 and it’ll be a bitter lesson, but £80 I’m gonna struggle with.

Also, the letter says “throwing” but the FPN says “dropped”. I’m not looking to find a loophole in the system here, I’m simply looking for advice and seeing where I stand.

Look forward to the advice given. Many thanks.

KeithP

Is this anything to do with parking?

UsernameValid78

Could you direct me to a more appropriate forum on here? It’s a fine related to my vehicle, and couldn’t find a more relevant sub forum. If you could point me in the right direction I’d be very thankful.

UsernameValid78

On quick searches of the forum, it appears that every query of this exact topic has come through this particular forum. So I believe I’m in the right place, albeit slightly off topic

The_Slithy_Tove

There have been a few of these instances here and on Pepipoo, though the OP normally denies everything.

The combined wisdom of the forums seems to be that you are under no obligation to name the driver, and the council can't assume that the registered keeper was the driver. This is not a S.172 from the police, which has penalties for not naming the driver, or providing information to help identify the driver. We've seen some councils then stepping up the pressure by citing some bit of law that does oblige you to name the driver or face prosecution. However, this law is for "serious" offences like dumping toxic waste, and not for the odd cigarette end.

On the other hand, morally, you know it was you, it was littering. You know what you should do.

Half_way

Advice: Cough up, and quit smoking, the money saved from not smoking will more than pay for the fine.

pogofish

First, make yourself aware of the legislation and DEFRA guidance on proper procedure for issuing FPNs:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/fixed-penalty-notices-issuing-and-enforcement-by-councils

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/enforcement-officers-issuing-fixed-penalty-notices

To proceed to prosecution, they do need to ensure the ticket was properly issued and the exceptions laid-out considered but if you do challenge it on issue, remember that at this level in the food chain, they do have six months in which they can void a faulty ticket and re-issue it correctly, so don't be too explicit in pointing-out any errors.

Who exactly issued it? Was it a proper council patroller or a goon from a private contractor like Kingdom Enforcement. If the latter, remember that they are well known for excessive "enforcement" and cutting corners in order to issue many tickets their record in court/getting to court is consequently horrendously bad.

UsernameValid78

You say morally I know it was me.... that’s it though, I don’t know. It happened a month ago. I have done this in the past I’m not trying to pretend I’m innocent... but if they don’t have evidence of me doing this then surely I can’t be prosecuted? On this occasion I might be innocent, I guess say we pretend this problem is related to dogs fouling, and my dog has probably fouled in the past and I’ve accidentally not picked the mess up... then I receive a FPN about my dog fouling yet on that day I can’t recollect if my dog did foul or not and if so whether I picked it up.... btw I ALWAYS clean up dog litter, I’m just using as example.

UsernameValid78

Half-way easier said than done. I don’t drink, or have any other vices apart from smoking, it’s on my to do list but finding it hard to quit sadly.