Has anyone had success with the 14 day rule?

Nice_guy

Can I ask what Gpeol is?

Nice_guy

Coupon-mad wrote: »

OK so when you read the NEWBIES thread, also look at the THIRD post of it and read the bit about a P/Eye ''Golden Ticket'' - you are the lucky holder of one! As long as the PCN in your hand is not the 'REMINDER' in the heading, and it's just headed PARKING CHARGE NOTICE but with nothing about the POFA 2012 on the back.

Go and look at the linked image of a Golden Ticket (non POFA) and chuckle to yourself!

Just checking, are you the registered keeper, or is the car leased/company/hired?

I've had a look at your third post on the NEWBIES post. I think I have a golden ticket. It is the first communication I have had from P/eye and there is no mention of POFA or any mention of POFA/keeper liability after 29 days.

I have saved a copy of my letter with my details taken out, if I send to you (coupon-mad) you can upload to that thread for others to view, maybe of some use.

Nice_guy

So if I have this right....

1. The liability of the PCN is on the driver

2. If the driver cannot be identified, the PCC can transfer the liability of the PCN to the keeper

3. For the PCC to transfer liability to the keeper, the PCC have had to have followed POFA2012. Although not mandatory for PCC's to follow POFA2012, they cannot transfer liability to the keeper without following the POFA2012 protocol.

4. POFA2012 (in my case) via APNR means they should have sent the PCN to me within 14 days after the date of breach.

5. Is the transfer of liability of the PCN from driver to keeper via following POFA2012 a legal stipulation?

If P/Eye know they have not followed the POFA2012 why are they sending me the PCN? They must know they cannot make me liable for the PCN due to their failure to follow POFA2012.

Is it their attempt to extract the drivers information from me? Or to scare the uneducated (me up to this point!) into paying? I suspect both, as both outcomes would be a win for them.

Le_Kirk

Nice_guy wrote: »

Can I ask what Gpeol is?

Genuine Pre Estimate of Loss

Guys_Dad

Nice_guy wrote: »

So if I have this right....

1. The liability of the PCN is on the driver

2. If the driver cannot be identified, the PCC can transfer the liability of the PCN to the keeper

3. For the PCC to transfer liability to the keeper, the PCC have had to have followed POFA2012. Although not mandatory for PCC's to follow POFA2012, they cannot transfer liability to the keeper without following the POFA2012 protocol.

4. POFA2012 (in my case) via APNR means they should have sent the PCN to me within 14 days after the date of breach.

5. Is the transfer of liability of the PCN from driver to keeper via following POFA2012 a legal stipulation?

If P/Eye know they have not followed the POFA2012 why are they sending me the PCN? They must know they cannot make me liable for the PCN due to their failure to follow POFA2012.

Is it their attempt to extract the drivers information from me? Or to scare the uneducated (me up to this point!) into paying? I suspect both, as both outcomes would be a win for them.

You have this right. POPLA assessors are not getting things right all the time at present - just read the latest POPLA DECISIONS thread.

So Keep it simple and a one point out of time appeal.

1. I am the Registered Keeper

2. The liability for this PCN is on the driver whom I decline to name

3. If the driver cannot be identified, the PCC can transfer the liability of the PCN to the keeper as long as they follow the mandatory requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012

4. For the PCC to transfer liability to the keeper, this being an ANPR case, the Parking company has to serve the Notice to Keeper within 14 days. The date of the alleged parking offence was the 25/08.2018, and the PCN/NTK has an issue date on it of 27/09/2018 This is clearly outside the 14-day timescale.

The result is that, under law, I, as registered keeper, can not be liable for this charge.

And that's it. :beer:

Nice_guy

Thanks Guys Dad.

I have read so many different appeals POPLA today and have thought do they need to be so long winded. I'm sure the points made are valid but do the assessors need so much supplementary information following each point? Surely they know the points and the rules/regs surrounding them.

Of course some points are naturally more lengthy than others so will need more detail. Or is it a case of baffle them with gunf so it shows you know your stuff and won't be backing down?

Fruitcake

Some PPCs will throw in the towel if they see a long forum assisted PoPLA appeal.
There is no "gunf" in the template appeals you will find in the NEWBIES. Appeals are won on legal contract law issues which is what you will find in the NEWBIES.

However, you are not at PoPLA stage as you have not yet sent the initial appeal.

Copy and paste and send the template from the NEWBIES as you have already been advised to do.
You could if you wanted to add a one liner saying that the NTK is non PoFA compliant so they should cancel now to save themselves time and money.

In addition, please complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.

Umkomaas

If P/Eye know they have not followed the POFA2012 why are they sending me the PCN? They must know they cannot make me liable for the PCN due to their failure to follow POFA2012.

Of course they do, they just hope you know less than them, and you will be cowed into either disclosing the driver's details or paying them as a result of naivety.

is it a case of baffle them with gunf

!!!!!! is 'gunf'? It sounds a bit nasty, so if you've caught it, I'd make an urgent appointment to see your Doctor. You should be seen in 3-4 weeks time!

Guys_Dad

I have a simple philosophy on this.

1. When you have a solid, 100% appeal point that doesn't call for an opinion, go for the single appeal point.

2. If not, then take the kitchen sink approach.

Now, some PPCs fold when hit by a kitchen sink, others think "We have a standard technical forum appeal with no sure fire winner, so we will go to POPLA" so it helps if you know your opponent.

But a clear single out of time appeal is a clear message to any PPC that they are on a loser.

Nice_guy

Fruitcake wrote: »

Some PPCs will throw in the towel if they see a long forum assisted PoPLA appeal.
There is no "gunf" in the template appeals you will find in the NEWBIES. Appeals are won on legal contract law issues which is what you will find in the NEWBIES.

However, you are not at PoPLA stage as you have not yet sent the initial appeal.

Copy and paste and send the template from the NEWBIES as you have already been advised to do.
You could if you wanted to add a one liner saying that the NTK is non PoFA compliant so they should cancel now to save themselves time and money.

In addition, please complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.

Thanks Fruitcake. I shall do as advised and add a small section about non POFA PCN.

I have 28 days to appeal according to the letter, I assume from date of issue. I don't think there is any benefit in delaying the appeal so will get it in sooner rather than later.