Tower Road PE - ticket didn't print

FUPE

Hi Guys,

Another incident at the infamous Tower Road PE location. I've searched the forum for a similar lack of ticket, but couldn't find anything.

Used the car park in the middle of the summer holidays (so busy) - took time to find a space, then further time to locate a machine. Two defective ticket machines - one had a defective keypad so VRN couldn't be entered correctly, the other took my money but didn't dispense a ticket. Tried in vain to contact PE by phone (they only publish a payment number).

Ultimately, paid for parking, but was around 12 minutes over paid time (obviously based on PE's usual entry/exit times, not actual parking time).

Stupidly didn't read this forum before using PE's appeal portal and so entered myself as driver. Appeal rejected, and POPLA number received.

I don't have a ticket, so no evidence of exactly when the ticket was dispensed - this detail isn't on PEs portal either. PE communications don't give an email that can be replied to - how can I go about getting this detail, and do I even need it to support POPLA appeal?

I think this case would fall under the Grace Period grounds, as it was a busy mid-holiday day causing delays getting into and out of the carpark and finding a space, the ticket machines were defective causing further delay and then time was wasted trying to phone PE. Have record of phone call (approx 10 mins after entry time, and this would've been a minute or 2 after paying for a ticket), as well as timed photo of PE sign for phone number when I returned to the car park (approx 10 mins before departure time) - time between these is less than paid for time.

Recommendations are welcome.

The_Deep

If they took you to court, imo they would struggle. Read this

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/03/waiting-for-space-is-not-parking.html

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P.
for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.

Castle

FUPE wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Used the car park in the middle of the summer holidays (so busy) - took time to find a space, then further time to locate a machine. Two defective ticket machines - one had a defective keypad so VRN couldn't be entered correctly, the other took my money but didn't dispense a ticket. Tried in vain to contact PE by phone (they only publish a payment number).

Was the VRN entered on the other machine?

FUPE

Yes, it entered correctly on that machine - the PE portal acknowledges the paid for time.

FUPE

All of the advice on here and in the Newbies thread state not to mention who was driving during the initial or POPLA appeals - I didn't find this resource until after I'd submitted my initial appeal, during which I almost certainly stated I was the driver.

How does this affect my POPLA appeal? I believe my case should be covered by the BPA's Grace Period directive, so wondered how the acknowledgment of driving might affect this? Does it just remove any potential FoPA appeal grounds?

KeithP

FUPE wrote: »

Does it just remove any potential PoFA appeal grounds?

Yes, that's all it does.

Umkomaas

Don't forget there are two Grace Periods, one to enter past the ANPR camera, which can be some distance from the eventual parking spot, to wheel around a very busy, seasonally congested car park, find a bay, park up, read the general signage (the purported legal contract between the driver and PE), go over to payment machine (or machines in your case!), read the instructions, put money in, obtain ticket - at that point the contract commences (although PE will argue that it commences at the point of entry to the car park!).

The BPA's Code of Practice states:

13.2 If the parking location is one where parking is normally permitted, you must allow the driver a reasonable
grace period in addition to the parking event before enforcement action is taken. In such instances the grace period must be a minimum of 10 minutes.

So, in your POPLA appeal you must itemise every piece of the action undertaken and how much of the first GP was consumed.

Then, there is a further GP at the end of the parking event to allow you to leave the car park. Again, this is what the BPA Code of Practice says:

13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.

So there's the exiting process, weaving around surf boards, lilos, bathers drying off, avoiding parents with young children and with prams, queuing to access the main road, being in that queue and being delayed beyond your control, not even yet reaching the PE static ANPR camera at the exit/entry point.

Again, itemise every piece of the exit process. Do not expect the POPLA Assessor to help you in the slightest on this, by you just saying it was a very busy car park in the holiday season, and them then making the connection. No, you must spell it out, Janet and John stylee, so they have no opportunity to award the benefit of the doubt to PE.

Increasingly, where benefit of doubt is given by POPLA, it is more towards the PPC than the motorist.

If you really have a watertight GP appeal section, I'd hazard that PE will likely not contest (no guarantee, but they do withdraw more frequently these days) - but you do need to jump through all the hoops first.

HTH

FUPE

Thanks Umkomaas - is there a way to get the actual purchase time of the (invisible) ticket as recorded by PE in order to add to the overall timeline for the POPLA appeal?

Umkomaas

FUPE wrote: »

Thanks Umkomaas - is there a way to get the actual purchase time of the (invisible) ticket as recorded by PE in order to add to the overall timeline for the POPLA appeal?

Only via a SAR (possibly).

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5849784/june-2018-start-of-the-new-ppc-and-dvla-fightback-gdpr-related

Coupon-mad

FUPE wrote: »

Thanks Umkomaas - is there a way to get the actual purchase time of the (invisible) ticket as recorded by PE in order to add to the overall timeline for the POPLA appeal?

Is it not shown on PE's website when you log in?

In any case, I would email/upload to PE, a SAR now, first, stating that two defective PDT machines were used and so you require the records from both machines (with other, unrelated VRNs partially redacted to protect personal data).

State that one machine had a faulty keypad and could not take the VRN (explain what the fault was, one key not working, say which) but you believe the partial VRN attempt would still have been recorded with a time input (despite no payment matching it) and you want the records from BOTH machines for the half hour after the car drove in, showing your VRN in full and a partial attempt made at the other machine first.

Upload a copy of your VRN and the PCN, to prove you are who you say you are and that you are the data subject identified by that VRN.

Use the form on PE's Privacy page, and do it NOW.