Overseas ATM reversal and higher conversion later on... help!

Gwab07

Hi all,

Soo I went on a holiday to Turkey recently, hoping to take advantage of the cheap Lira. I withdrew 750 TRY at the airport using my Starling card and was charged just over £89. So far so good.

A few days ago I noticed a withdrawal charge from Turkey on my account which I thought was fraudulent as I am already back in the UK. I contacted Starling and turns out a week after the initial withdrawal the merchant reversed the charge and a week and a half later (the later charge I was seeing) was them recharging me, only now it is costing me £96 - that's an extra £7 I needed to pay because... well I'm not sure!

Has anyone had experience of this? I contacted Starling and they said they can't do anything and suggested I contact the merchant, but they aren't able to tell me anything about merchant details...

Any advice? Not sure what I should do - are merchants really allowed to just reverse charges whenever and reinstate them when the exchange rates suit them better? At a cost to me and you? There is no record of the original transaction on the app as well, which is even more annoying!

Looking forward to everyone's suggestions.

bradders1983

Yup, ive had a refund made to a credit card for a USD transaction and the refund was done at the prevailing exchange rate at the time and I lost a few pennies.

cubegame

That's a large swing in rate if it was a refund and recharge. Has the Lira shown a recent significant bounce against sterling?

Were you actually charged in Turkish Lira? The Starling app will show that.

bagand96

There’s nothing you can do about it really as it’s due to currency fluctuations. Your bank convert the foreign currency at the MasterCard exchange rate on the day the transaction is posted. So on your initial withdrawal the rate was around 8.42 THY to the GBP. On the more recent transaction the rate is 7.81. This looks about right on the chart of THY/GBP rates over the last month (without knowing the exact dates)

are merchants really allowed to just reverse charges whenever and reinstate them when the exchange rates suit them better? At a cost to me and you?

You’re slightly misunderstanding how it works. The ATM operator has made no extra money here - they see no benefit from the exchange rate - they only ever receive 750 THY. The difference in cost to you is based on international exchange rates - nobody profits as such.

The reasons for it could be many - but it’s most likely an IT glitch with either the ATM or the provider’s systems.

Gwab07

cubegame wrote: »

That's a large swing in rate if it was a refund and recharge. Has the Lira shown a recent significant bounce against sterling?

Were you actually charged in Turkish Lira? The Starling app will show that.

That's what I thought, but it does correspond with the current Lira exchange rates.
And yes I have been charged in Lira as I declined the GBP conversion offered by the ATM.
Starling said they don't know why the charge has been reversed but can't do nada about the amount. Even if it's showing a withdrawal on 1 Oct which is technically erroneous. Err.

Gwab07

bagand96 wrote: »

There’s nothing you can do about it really as it’s due to currency fluctuations. Your bank convert the foreign currency at the MasterCard exchange rate on the day the transaction is posted. So on your initial withdrawal the rate was around 8.42 THY to the GBP. On the more recent transaction the rate is 7.81. This looks about right on the chart of THY/GBP rates over the last month (without knowing the exact dates)

You’re slightly misunderstanding how it works. The ATM operator has made no extra money here - they see no benefit from the exchange rate - they only ever receive 750 THY. The difference in cost to you is based on international exchange rates - nobody profits as such.

The reasons for it could be many - but it’s most likely an IT glitch with either the ATM or the provider’s systems.

Thank you for the above! I got more from you than the customer rep at Starling!

The exact dates were 19/20 Sept (arrived close to midnight) and the later date being 1 Oct.
So I get the above re: exchange rate, but my question is more why did the merchant reverse it and then charge me later, as this put me at 'a loss' (I know £7 is not a lot, but still miffed).

Do I not have a guarantee of the exchange rate used being the one on the day of withdrawal, to protect me against currency fluctuations? If - god forbid - that the Lira miraculously went back to its original exchange rate of 3TRY: 1 GBP on the day they recharged me, I can just be recharged with the latest exchange rate even if ON THE DAY I withdrew it wasn't that?

bradders1983

Gwab07 wrote: »

Thank you for the above! I got more from you than the customer rep at Starling!

The exact dates were 19/20 Sept (arrived close to midnight) and the later date being 1 Oct.
So I get the above re: exchange rate, but my question is more why did the merchant reverse it and then charge me later, as this put me at 'a loss' (I know £7 is not a lot, but still miffed).

Do I not have a guarantee of the exchange rate used being the one on the day of withdrawal, to protect me against currency fluctuations? If - god forbid - that the Lira miraculously went back to its original exchange rate of 3TRY: 1 GBP on the day they recharged me, I can just be recharged with the latest exchange rate even if ON THE DAY I withdrew it wasn't that?

Well it presumably took you until the 1st October to notice the fraudulent transaction, yes? So the reversal was done at the exchange rate on that date.

And no you have no guarantee. Like I said, this has happened to me on a normal credit card when I cancelled a hotel room in the States. As already said there is no benefit to the merchant and/or credit card provider for waiting until the exchange rate changes.

bagand96

Do I not have a guarantee of the exchange rate used being the one on the day of withdrawal, to protect me against currency fluctuations? If - god forbid - that the Lira miraculously went back to its original exchange rate of 3TRY: 1 GBP on the day they recharged me, I can just be recharged with the latest exchange rate even if ON THE DAY I withdrew it wasn't that?

There’s no such guarantees that exist. Your bank can only convert via MasterCard for the day the transaction is posted. In this instance the transaction is being posted 10/11 days later than it actually occurred. Nobody knows the reason for this - as I said it’s most likely an IT error, I’ve had similar happen to me recently with a UK ATM.

Currency rates are always subject to change, if the rate had gone the other way then you’d be the one to gain. Although I appreciate this isn’t your fault, and it is frustrating, it’s best to move on and forget about it, in terms of your whole holiday cost, £7 is a small amount.

Gwab07

bradders1983 wrote: »

Well it presumably took you until the 1st October to notice the fraudulent transaction, yes? So the reversal was done at the exchange rate on that date.

And no you have no guarantee. Like I said, this has happened to me on a normal credit card when I cancelled a hotel room in the States

I'm sorry I think I may not have explained it well, there was no fraudulent transaction as such.

I withdrew and it showed up on the account. All good. I didn't dispute anything, it showed up okay, and nothing was contested. Then unbeknownst to me they (the marchant) reversed the charge a few days later and only reinstated it on the 1st of October at the exchange rate it was then, which is lower than on the day, hence I paid more.

So it's more I didn't do anything and it wasn't my fault and everything happened without my knowledge but due to a fault or another on the ATM provider side I now have to pay more! Such a shame.

bradders1983

If you ended up £7 up from the reversal, you wouldnt be on the phone to them asking them to keep it would you? and as said, the merchant still gets/loses 750 local currency so no benefit by waiting.

All part of foreign currency exchange and refunds/reversals, sadly. Sometimes you can be up, others down. Chalk it up to experience and be thankful it wasnt a bigger amount.

bagand96

Another example, I hired a car in the USA last month all prepaid with Avis. After returning the car I had a small charge on my credit card for $8, wish was £6.16. I wasn’t sure what this was for as I took no extras. After my holiday I emailed Avis to query this, they agreed it was an error and refunded me my $8. The refund credited as £6.10 due to exchange rate differences. It’s only a tiny amount (and the exchange rate had gone the opposite way!) but it’s a similar scenario.