Can we legally save what we need?

Froop

We are a family of 4. I am working age and unemployed (on JSA income based). My partner is over the age for pension credits and receives a pension. Our children are under 10 years old.

We are kinda homeless. We live in our motorhome. Now, before I get more sympathy than I need, we are very fortunate because it is a very nice, big motorhome and we want for nothing. We aren't in a tiddly little camper- it's a house, effectively (think Winnebago). So we are functional. We were lucky to have had it when everything went south. Finding safe places to park it is another matter!

We don't qualify for housing benefit because we haven't got a "local connection", so we can't get help with site fees that way. If I get a full time permanent job, we will have that local connection for Housing Benefit (and HB will pay pitch fees), but the only job to make me an offer so far is zero hours, and of course I took it, but even then they are being very slow doing the DBS check so it might be a while before I earn anything. It's a vital job for the community it serves but it's not officially full time, so no magic " local connection".

We wondered what land would cost. If we bought land we could probably only be on it X months of the year, but planning permission can be sought and even a few months and a permenant address is valuable... But that's a whole book right there... Essentially, what you need to know is... We are thinking about trying to buy land. The money we need for that round here is about £20k.

£20k at £100 a week takes 4 years. Up the amount and the time decreases, and vice versa.

What if I get this job. If I work 40h we will have an income about £150 a week higher than if I don't work... Well that means we could conceivably save the money in 3 years for land... BUT... A significant amount of that would still be coming from Child Tax Credits, pension credit and possibly Working Tax Credit (I might be out of date on this, I haven't been this skint in a while).

I looked it up and it said you can't have savings over £6k without it affecting benefits or £16k without it stopping them. Apparently his pension doesn't stop, and there's no chance I will ever have a salary that breaks the Child Benefit cut off (not in my line of work)... But kids savings aren't counted.

Is it legal to save the first £10k as £5k into a savings account for each of the two children, where it doesn't affect our entitlement? It seems ethical enough to me, the land is sought to secure the future for 4 of us, and 1/4 of £20k is of course £5k... But am I right in thinking that's legal?

Before anyone hates me for wanting to claim when I start to have savings (I don't yet) please bear in mind that the work I do is vital to help people, the typical rate of pay is £10 an hour and we are looking at some drastic penny pinching to make security happen for the kids from where we are now. Its worth it, if, when their dad dies (and let's not beat about the bush, he's a pensioner, its going to happen one day) we have enough security not to wind up where we were when we moved into the motorhome... Without a paddle on a familiar brown creek.

calcotti

For Pension Credit there is no upper savings limit. The first £10,000 are ignored and then £1 is deducted from benefit for every £500 or part over the £10,000. If there is an entitlement to Pension Credit guarantee then for Housing Benefit the savings are ignored and there is automatically an entitlement to Housing Benefit ( subject to meeting the other qualifying conditions).

You could use a benefit calculator to test things out https://www.entitledto.co.uk/

There are no capital limits for Tax Credits but you have to declare the interest when informing HMRC about your income for the year.

Even if you are not working you are likely to be better off if partner claims Pension Credit rather than you claiming income based JSA (although with JSA you do at least get ni credits in your own name to count towards your future State Pension). Use the benefits calculator to check this. On JSA a couple have an allowance of £114.85 whereas for Pension Credit it is £248.80. Your partner’s pension must be very small for you to be getting any income based JSA especially if you are getting tax credits as well. You could maintain a credits only JSA claim if you wished. PLEASE IGNORE BIT IN ITALICS - see correction below (post 8).

If you put money into a savings account in a child’s name you will be treated as still having it yourself.

Obviously when your partner reaches pension age and gets their State Pension the calculations will change. They can get a pension forecast by contacting the Future Pension Service https://www.gov.uk/future-pension-centre

[Deleted User]

OP who told you that you cannot claim HB for site fees? We claim it for park home fees and have from day one, and we had no local connection whatsoever.

Froop

The council. Apparently the kids being in school doesn't count, I have to have lived here for X number of years (I haven't), have qualifying relatives here (nope), own land (lol- if I owned land I wouldn't be applying) or have a full time permanent job. As I don't have a local connection anywhere by these rules, I am stuck.

sangie595

Froop wrote: »

We are a family of 4. I am working age and unemployed (on JSA income based). My partner is over the age for pension credits and receives a pension. Our children are under 10 years old.

We are kinda homeless. We live in our motorhome. Now, before I get more sympathy than I need, we are very fortunate because it is a very nice, big motorhome and we want for nothing. We aren't in a tiddly little camper- it's a house, effectively (think Winnebago). So we are functional. We were lucky to have had it when everything went south. Finding safe places to park it is another matter!

We don't qualify for housing benefit because we haven't got a "local connection", so we can't get help with site fees that way. If I get a full time permanent job, we will have that local connection for Housing Benefit (and HB will pay pitch fees), but the only job to make me an offer so far is zero hours, and of course I took it, but even then they are being very slow doing the DBS check so it might be a while before I earn anything. It's a vital job for the community it serves but it's not officially full time, so no magic " local connection".

We wondered what land would cost. If we bought land we could probably only be on it X months of the year, but planning permission can be sought and even a few months and a permenant address is valuable... But that's a whole book right there... Essentially, what you need to know is... We are thinking about trying to buy land. The money we need for that round here is about £20k.

£20k at £100 a week takes 4 years. Up the amount and the time decreases, and vice versa.

What if I get this job. If I work 40h we will have an income about £150 a week higher than if I don't work... Well that means we could conceivably save the money in 3 years for land... BUT... A significant amount of that would still be coming from Child Tax Credits, pension credit and possibly Working Tax Credit (I might be out of date on this, I haven't been this skint in a while).

I looked it up and it said you can't have savings over £6k without it affecting benefits or £16k without it stopping them. Apparently his pension doesn't stop, and there's no chance I will ever have a salary that breaks the Child Benefit cut off (not in my line of work)... But kids savings aren't counted.

Is it legal to save the first £10k as £5k into a savings account for each of the two children, where it doesn't affect our entitlement? It seems ethical enough to me, the land is sought to secure the future for 4 of us, and 1/4 of £20k is of course £5k... But am I right in thinking that's legal?

Before anyone hates me for wanting to claim when I start to have savings (I don't yet) please bear in mind that the work I do is vital to help people, the typical rate of pay is £10 an hour and we are looking at some drastic penny pinching to make security happen for the kids from where we are now. Its worth it, if, when their dad dies (and let's not beat about the bush, he's a pensioner, its going to happen one day) we have enough security not to wind up where we were when we moved into the motorhome... Without a paddle on a familiar brown creek.

So being paid to do a job that is "vital" for people justifies benefit fraud? Can everyone who does a job vital for people commit benefit fraud, or is it just you?

Afraid_of_Kittens

There is no such terminology as 'local connection' in the Housing Benefit legislation. You cannot be refused Housing Benefit for not having a 'local connection'.

You could move 300 miles to a pitch and as long as you have a liability for pitch fees and you qualify you can claim Housing Benefit. Housing Benefit is based on liability not local connections.

'Local Connections' is what a Local Council expect you to have before becoming eligible to help as a homeless person in getting social housing. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/homelessness-code-of-guidance-for-local-authorities/chapter-10-local-connection-and-referrals-to-another-housing-authority

Afraid_of_Kittens

Froop wrote: »

The council. Apparently the kids being in school doesn't count, I have to have lived here for X number of years (I haven't), have qualifying relatives here (nope), own land (lol- if I owned land I wouldn't be applying) or have a full time permanent job. As I don't have a local connection anywhere by these rules, I am stuck.

There are no such rules for applying for pitch fees to claim Housing Benefit.

bigbill

calcotti wrote: »

Even if you are not working you are likely to be better off if partner claims Pension Credit rather than you claiming income based JSA (although with JSA you do at least get ni credits in your own name to count towards your future State Pension). Use the benefits calculator to check this. On JSA a couple have an allowance of £114.85 whereas for Pension Credit it is £248.80. You could maintain a credits only JSA claim if you wished.

Income Based JSA for a couple with one over Pension Credit age is £248.80 not £114.85

calcotti

bigbill wrote: »

Income Based JSA for a couple with one over Pension Credit age is £248.80 not £114.85

Thanks bigbill, you are of course right - I completely forgot the pensioner premium. Apologies to OP for incorrect information. I’ve added a note to my original post.

OP might still benefit from different treatment of savings (if they get to the point of having some).

Froop

Where is this rage coming from? I'm not talking about acting outside of the law, I'm questioning where the line is for staying within it. You should consider meditation mate. Jeez.

Froop

Ahhh, there may have been a mix up in what answer followed what question. I will follow that up with regard specifically to pitch fees, thanks!