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UKPC court date, advice needed
KattPhace
Posts: 14 Forumite
I received a number of tickets from UKPC back in 2016. It's now going to court, I have a date set. Any help with my situation would be greatly appreciated.
TLDR; going to court, now missed deadline for sending in paperwork, what are my options?
They're taking me to court for 4 tickets:
2 x parking outside of a marked bay
1 x parking longer than the allowed time
1 x parking on a roadway
My current defence as sent to them previously has been as follows:
I, the defendant dispute the Parking Charge Notice that claims the
vehicle was not parked within marked bay when the bumper is
clearly and safely within the space, without obstruction or danger
to other vehicles. The vehicle was parked close to its line as the
vehicle in the adjacent space was close to theirs, but it is clear
to see the vehicle in question that was given the PCN is not
obstructing any other vehicle from parking, nor obstructing the
pathway or roadway. I, the defendant, state this ticket is invalid
and given on a tenuous basis.
I, the defendant, dispute Ticket Number **** that claims
the vehicle obstructed a roadway. There is a wide berth around the
vehicle that other vehicles large and small could pass by easily
and without danger. There is no 'obstruction' and I, the
defendant, believe the PCN to be descriptively incorrect.
Furthermore, I, the defendant, can provide photos of other
vehicles parked on the Oaktrees site in the same position, or
worse, actually obstructing the roadway, who have not recieved
tickets. Please also see the end of this defence for more
information on dispute in regard to this Ticket Number.
I, the defendant, dispute Ticket Number **** that
claims the vehicle was parked in the same space for 'longer than
the allowed time.' The vehicle parked in the space on 15.3, left
it on the morning of 16.3 and then returned to the site of
Oaktrees and parked in a different space on the evening of the
same day, 16.3. The vehicle left again on the morning of 17.3 and
returned that same evening and parked in the same space as it had
occupied on 15.3, subsequently receiving a ticket. UKPC
coveniently has no photographic evidence of where the car parked
on 16.3. They can claim by their evidence the car parked for over
48 hours, when in fact it did not. I, the defendant, state this
ticket is invalid and incorrectly given with insufficient
evidence.
I would now like to state a defence more general to all the PCN's
given, but more specifically in relation to Ticket Number
****. The UKPC signage at Oaktrees that binds a 'contract'
between myself, the defendant, and UKPC, the claimant, appears to
prohibit anyone at any time parking on the roadway under any
circumstances. In this case then, to park on the roadway is not a
breach of contract but a case of trespass being paraded as a
contract so that UKPC may claim money. For further clarification,
please observe Parking Control Management (UK) vs. Christopher
Bull, overseen by Judge Glenn on 21st Apri1 2016: 'This notice is
an absolute prohibition against parking at any time, for any
period, on the roadway. It is impossible to construct out of this
in any way, either actually or contingently or conditionally, any
permission for anyone to park on the roadway. All this is
essentially saying is you must not trespass on the roadway. If you
do we are giving ourselves, and we are dressing it up in the form
of a contract, the right to charge you a sum of money which really
would be damages for trespass, assuming of course that the
claimant had any interest in the land in order to proceed in
trespass.'
In addition to my arguments, I'd like to address that UKPC was
recently the subject of a winding up petition from HMRC and in
2015 they admitted to faking time stamps on tickets to enforce
fines, in an NHS car park no less. I find this information
particuarly unsettling in regards to Ticket Number ****
which claims the vehicle parked for longer than the allowed time.
Furthermore, prior to the time stamp scandal, UKPC was taken to
court in 2011 for misleading customers. The company evidently has
a bad track record for scamming and deceiving customers. I, the
defendant, will not be misguided by scare tactics, such as tickets
made to look 'official,' as I am aware that Parking Charge
Notices, such as those provided by UKPC, are not enforceable nor
backed up by law, but simply a type of invoice and demand for
payment.
To summarise, I, the defendant, dispute all Parking Charge Notices
given and assert that each one is invalid and tenous at best, and
I further state that UKPC is a greedy, untrustworthy company to
whom I will henceforth pay no sum.
- - - -
In mediation, they rejected my all my statements, even when it transpired their timings on my "staying longer than allowed" were proved incorrect and I did not stay longer than permitted by their rules.
They've also now sent me the photos they've got and for one of the parked outside a bay, the photos are so dark you can't see anything and there's one very, very, very dark picture of the back of the car where no white line is visible because it's so damn dark, literally nothing is visible.
However, I have now missed the deadline for submitting my defence and paperwork to the court. Do I have any options here? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
TLDR; going to court, now missed deadline for sending in paperwork, what are my options?
They're taking me to court for 4 tickets:
2 x parking outside of a marked bay
1 x parking longer than the allowed time
1 x parking on a roadway
My current defence as sent to them previously has been as follows:
I, the defendant dispute the Parking Charge Notice that claims the
vehicle was not parked within marked bay when the bumper is
clearly and safely within the space, without obstruction or danger
to other vehicles. The vehicle was parked close to its line as the
vehicle in the adjacent space was close to theirs, but it is clear
to see the vehicle in question that was given the PCN is not
obstructing any other vehicle from parking, nor obstructing the
pathway or roadway. I, the defendant, state this ticket is invalid
and given on a tenuous basis.
I, the defendant, dispute Ticket Number **** that claims
the vehicle obstructed a roadway. There is a wide berth around the
vehicle that other vehicles large and small could pass by easily
and without danger. There is no 'obstruction' and I, the
defendant, believe the PCN to be descriptively incorrect.
Furthermore, I, the defendant, can provide photos of other
vehicles parked on the Oaktrees site in the same position, or
worse, actually obstructing the roadway, who have not recieved
tickets. Please also see the end of this defence for more
information on dispute in regard to this Ticket Number.
I, the defendant, dispute Ticket Number **** that
claims the vehicle was parked in the same space for 'longer than
the allowed time.' The vehicle parked in the space on 15.3, left
it on the morning of 16.3 and then returned to the site of
Oaktrees and parked in a different space on the evening of the
same day, 16.3. The vehicle left again on the morning of 17.3 and
returned that same evening and parked in the same space as it had
occupied on 15.3, subsequently receiving a ticket. UKPC
coveniently has no photographic evidence of where the car parked
on 16.3. They can claim by their evidence the car parked for over
48 hours, when in fact it did not. I, the defendant, state this
ticket is invalid and incorrectly given with insufficient
evidence.
I would now like to state a defence more general to all the PCN's
given, but more specifically in relation to Ticket Number
****. The UKPC signage at Oaktrees that binds a 'contract'
between myself, the defendant, and UKPC, the claimant, appears to
prohibit anyone at any time parking on the roadway under any
circumstances. In this case then, to park on the roadway is not a
breach of contract but a case of trespass being paraded as a
contract so that UKPC may claim money. For further clarification,
please observe Parking Control Management (UK) vs. Christopher
Bull, overseen by Judge Glenn on 21st Apri1 2016: 'This notice is
an absolute prohibition against parking at any time, for any
period, on the roadway. It is impossible to construct out of this
in any way, either actually or contingently or conditionally, any
permission for anyone to park on the roadway. All this is
essentially saying is you must not trespass on the roadway. If you
do we are giving ourselves, and we are dressing it up in the form
of a contract, the right to charge you a sum of money which really
would be damages for trespass, assuming of course that the
claimant had any interest in the land in order to proceed in
trespass.'
In addition to my arguments, I'd like to address that UKPC was
recently the subject of a winding up petition from HMRC and in
2015 they admitted to faking time stamps on tickets to enforce
fines, in an NHS car park no less. I find this information
particuarly unsettling in regards to Ticket Number ****
which claims the vehicle parked for longer than the allowed time.
Furthermore, prior to the time stamp scandal, UKPC was taken to
court in 2011 for misleading customers. The company evidently has
a bad track record for scamming and deceiving customers. I, the
defendant, will not be misguided by scare tactics, such as tickets
made to look 'official,' as I am aware that Parking Charge
Notices, such as those provided by UKPC, are not enforceable nor
backed up by law, but simply a type of invoice and demand for
payment.
To summarise, I, the defendant, dispute all Parking Charge Notices
given and assert that each one is invalid and tenous at best, and
I further state that UKPC is a greedy, untrustworthy company to
whom I will henceforth pay no sum.
- - - -
In mediation, they rejected my all my statements, even when it transpired their timings on my "staying longer than allowed" were proved incorrect and I did not stay longer than permitted by their rules.
They've also now sent me the photos they've got and for one of the parked outside a bay, the photos are so dark you can't see anything and there's one very, very, very dark picture of the back of the car where no white line is visible because it's so damn dark, literally nothing is visible.
However, I have now missed the deadline for submitting my defence and paperwork to the court. Do I have any options here? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
0
Comments
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as you have already submitted your defence, you cannot submit another one
your initial defence was sent before the court was allocated and before any court date was set
normally you should submit your WS and your evidence 2 weeks prior , or whenever the judge said so check your paperwork
ideally we need to know when the court date is, plius I would say get the WS and evidence sub,itted asap anyway, regardless , plus any skeleton and costs schedule too
so assuming its not tomorrow, get those things sorted out asap
forget about your defence, its already been submitted months ago, so already on file0 -
In addition to my arguments, I'd like to address that UKPC was
recently the subject of a winding up petition from HMRC and in
2015 they admitted to faking time stamps on tickets to enforce
fines, in an NHS car park no less. I find this information
particuarly unsettling in regards to Ticket Number ****
which claims the vehicle parked for longer than the allowed time.
Furthermore, prior to the time stamp scandal, UKPC was taken to
court in 2011 for misleading customers. The company evidently has
a bad track record for scamming and deceiving customers. I, the
defendant, will not be misguided by scare tactics, such as tickets
made to look 'official,' as I am aware that Parking Charge
Notices, such as those provided by UKPC, are not enforceable nor
backed up by law, but simply a type of invoice and demand for
payment.
To summarise, I, the defendant, dispute all Parking Charge Notices
given and assert that each one is invalid and tenous at best, and
I further state that UKPC is a greedy, untrustworthy company to
whom I will henceforth pay no sum.
That's not a Defence, that's a rant.
None of that has any relevance whatsoever to your case. The Judge is unlikely to be impressed.
I have been providing assistance, including Lay Representation at Court hearings (current score: won 57, lost 14), to defendants in parking cases for over 5 years. I have an LLB (Hons) degree, and have a Graduate Diploma in Civil Litigation from CILEx. However, any advice given on these forums by me is NOT formal legal advice, and I accept no liability for its accuracy.0 -
as you have already submitted your defence, you cannot submit another one
your initial defence was sent before the court was allocated and before any court date was set
normally you should submit your WS and your evidence 2 weeks prior , or whenever the judge said so check your paperwork
ideally we need to know when the court date is, plius I would say get the WS and evidence sub,itted asap anyway, regardless , plus any skeleton and costs schedule too
so assuming its not tomorrow, get those things sorted out asap
forget about your defence, its already been submitted months ago, so already on file
Date is 14 days from now, 8th October, and paperwork from court says I must supply everything no later than 14 days before the court date.
I have got a witness statement, it is going to be in the post first class tomorrow.
What is a skeleton, can you elaborate? And what should I put for a cost schedule, I'm not sure I'm incurring any costs other than travelling to the court?
Thank you for your quick reply.0 -
these legal questions are in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread at the top of this forum , including skeleton argument and costs schedule, so read the BARGEPOLE and LOC123 posts as they explain them far better than I can
get the WS and evidence in asap , plus I think you email them to the claimant and/or their solicitor , then do the skelly and costs schedule
you can claim up to say £95 in costs, but should study the LOC123 posts and get those 2 in before the court date (a few days before maybe)
now is the time to gen up on the legal stuff that I have alluded to0 -
Skeleton arguments are explained in the NEWBIES thread but that is NOT your priority right now, forget that.
WS and evidence MUST be taken to the court in the morning, in a nice ring binder file, with a contents page and all pages numbered, evidence all having a number that you refer to in your WS (e.g. KP1, KP2, etc.). On the outside of the file, attach a secure sheet or label that says the claim number, the words 'Witness Statement and evidence of the Defendant' and the date of the hearing it relates to.
Email the same thing to the Claimant (their solicitor, if they are using one).
Avoid these awful split infinitives in the WS or the Judge might be as pedantic about grammar as me, and hate reading it (not joking, this murders the English language!):I, the defendant, dispute
Same as this one, here is a thread with advice about doing an urgent late WS:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74824348#Comment_74824348
HTHPRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
-
these legal questions are in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread at the top of this forum , including skeleton argument and costs schedule, so read the BARGEPOLE and LOC123 posts as they explain them far better than I can
get the WS and evidence in asap , plus I think you email them to the claimant and/or their solicitor , then do the skelly and costs schedule
you can claim up to say £95 in costs, but should study the LOC123 posts and get those 2 in before the court date (a few days before maybe)
now is the time to gen up on the legal stuff that I have alluded to
Do you know if someone else can hand deliver the papers for me? I work 8:30-5:30 on the outskirts of London, I'd have to get off work to go all the way into central to deliver them (which is an option if I have to, I'll pull a sicky) but if someone else is allowed to deliver on my behalf that would be ideal.0 -
Of course they can.Do you know if someone else can hand deliver the papers for me? I work 8:30-5:30 on the outskirts of London, I'd have to get off work to go all the way into central to deliver them (which is an option if I have to, I'll pull a sicky) but if someone else is allowed to deliver on my behalf that would be ideal.
If you had posted them, they would be hand delivered by the postman.
That's exactly the same thing as some other person delivering them on your behalf. But better warn them, the Royal Courts of Justice, where the Central London County Court is situated, is a labyrinth of corridors and staircases, nicknamed 'Hogwarts' by those who attend regularly.
Your friend had better make sure the package is delivered to the right section - the High Court, the Court of Appeal (Civil Division) and Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) are also located in that building.
I have been providing assistance, including Lay Representation at Court hearings (current score: won 57, lost 14), to defendants in parking cases for over 5 years. I have an LLB (Hons) degree, and have a Graduate Diploma in Civil Litigation from CILEx. However, any advice given on these forums by me is NOT formal legal advice, and I accept no liability for its accuracy.0
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