Pension Credit and 2nd Home

FBaby

Really? So you discovered that he wasn't entitled to the benefit but continued to spend it just because they didn't stop paying it? Why would you do that knowing that they could ask for it back at anytime but hoping your father would get away with it?

Ordid you think that reporting something meant that he would be exempt from repaying any overpayment? It doesn't work like that, the pot of benefit is squeezed, if you are not entitled to receiving any you are not entitled to keep it because it was given by error.

If you can get a loan to repay the overpayment why are you worried about the dpw demanding the sale of the house? Posters here are not stupid, the dpw either even if incompetent.

zoxsa

TELLIT01 wrote: »

Any attempt to effectively dispose of assets so that the overpayment can't be recovered is a high risk strategy.

That's the advice Im looking for.
Thank you!

But the idea of doing that did NOT come as a means to avoid our duty of paying back the DWP. it came because we need a remortgage and as a result of a remortgage, we need to take our dad's name of the title deeds as the bank won't lend with a tenant over 80 years.
Taking my dad off the deeds will result in CGT.
If I have to pay CGT, then I'm trying to see if its worth it- if there are other benefits - like paying the DWP on our own terms.

I will definitely need a remortgage, but we can tell the DWP that we are STILL happy to pay them (AS WE HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED TO THEM) no matter what.

Just take all possible steps to get the debt cleared and only then worry about the house.

Yes.. to get the debt cleared.. if there is a debt to pay, we need a remortgage anyway.

To be honest, the feeling that comes across is less one of concern for you father and more about protecting your interests.

I'm sorry you have that opinion. The truth is we have some debts we need to pay and require a remortgage. That's it.

DWP or any other creditor could simply apply for a lien against the property if they believe actions have been taken to hide assets. That would be a much worse outcome than simply getting things sorted.

OK - I see. Well.. if we are transparent with the DWP about the re-mortgage and the reasons for it, and we tell them that we are at their service for any penalties that need to be paid, I'm SURE they will understand.

zoxsa

FBaby wrote: »

Really? So you discovered that he wasn't entitled to the benefit but continued to spend it just because they didn't stop paying it?

Well.. When we wrote to the DWP, we explained everything: the 2nd home etc.. its rented value... the whole story. But we come from a good family. I am SURE that no one did anything wrong, so we mentioned ".. if my father is indeed entitled to receive these credits.. great, if not, please stop them".

We thought that my mother never received any pension credits or any allowance, that as a carer for my dad - this COULD be the reason why he was receiving PC?? Not sure.

Why would you do that knowing that they could ask for it back at anytime but hoping your father would get away with it?

I answered this above. We were clear in our correspondence with them that we were not even sure if we are raising a false alarm. If it was a false alarm, please let us know, otherwise please stop the PC.

But I do not spend the PC. It goes to my dad. The rental of the 2nd home goes to pay a mortgage AND pay for a carer.

Ordid you think that reporting something meant that he would be exempt from repaying any overpayment? It doesn't work like that, the pot of benefit is squeezed, if you are not entitled to receiving any you are not entitled to keep it because it was given by error.

No.. I am FULLY AWARE at how serious is it to make false claims. The PC renewal assessment form asked if we owned a 2nd property. That's when bells began to ring.
I felt that if we are honest with them and just say upfront our concerns, then we can close this situation faster.

If you can get a loan to repay the overpayment why are you worried about the dpw demanding the sale of the house? Posters here are not stupid, the dpw either even if incompetent.

Im really new in all this. I just have so many assumptions, one being repossession of a house - and we cannot afford that. My dad is alone with a carer. She's VERY expensive. Its a live in carer. If we lose that income, we are in trouble. (or definitely, he will be)

NYM

zoxsa wrote: »

But I do not spend the PC. It goes to my dad. The rental of the 2nd home goes to pay a mortgage AND pay for a carer.

It's your Dads PC claim, obviously it goes to him.
The DWP will treat the 50% rental income your Dad receives, as income. How he spends it, is not their concern.

zoxsa wrote: »

No.. I am FULLY AWARE at how serious is it to make false claims. The PC renewal assessment form asked if we owned a 2nd property. That's when bells began to ring.
I felt that if we are honest with them and just say upfront our concerns, then we can close this situation faster.

You need to actually speak to them.

zoxsa wrote: »

Im really new in all this. I just have so many assumptions, one being repossession of a house - and we cannot afford that. My dad is alone with a carer. She's VERY expensive. Its a live in carer. If we lose that income, we are in trouble. (or definitely, he will be)

Who pays the tax and NI for the Carer?

zoxsa

We found the carer through an agency. I'm assuming the agency are paying for her.
Yes. I called and spoke to the DWP. We spoke and wrote.
They said on the phone (at the time) that they can't say what my mother put on the application as that's personal info. But I made it clear - he has a 2nd house.

And yes, im fully aware that they will consider that the income from the rent is 50% his. That's OK.. I didn't suggest to my dad to claim pension credits.. I didn't know what they were. I just found out about all this and I've been learning fast.

As you can see, there's many many things I don't know. But Im glad that you all are up to date with all this.

I really believe that ultimately if we are open and transparent with the DWP everything will be OK. You've all answered my questions:

I will try and find a mortgage that allows my dad's name to stay; otherwise, we may have to incur CGT. If his name is removed, it won't change a thing: we won't sell the house or do anything UNTIL the DWP issue is closed anyway.

I just want to pay them back in a way that doesn't;'t stop any rental income. I have images of them seizing the property and selling it to get their pound of flesh.

NYM

I know nothing about Pensions or Pension Credits, but I believe that as your Dad is over 80 yrs old, he may have been on an indefinite AIP.
He would have been reassessed at some point so it might be worth sorting his paperwork from the DWP to see if he has anything to confirm this. (Someone will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong...)

zoxsa

NYM wrote: »

I know nothing about Pensions or Pension Credits, but I believe that as your Dad is over 80 yrs old, he may have been on an indefinite AIP.
He would have been reassessed at some point so it might be worth sorting his paperwork from the DWP to see if he has anything to confirm this. (Someone will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong...)

Thank you so so much for this good advice. I appreciate that. Yes, there must be something like this. We would NEVER have filled in false forms.
I have 3 kids and I only came for 1 child benefit. We don't cheat - even with taxes, I pay the most amongst all my peers who do very dodgy stuff.
My parents are very noble people. There must be a misunderstanding somewhere in this. Even if there is a mistake, im sure it was done unwittingly or unknowingly. If to get a PC you have to specify if you have a 2nd home, I'm 1000% sure that my mother would have said - yes, we have a 2nd home - UNLESS she assumed that adding my name to the house meant taking hers off??? She could have assumed that.

NYM

zoxsa wrote: »

Thank you so so much for this good advice. I appreciate that. Yes, there must be something like this. We would NEVER have filled in false forms.
I have 3 kids and I only came for 1 child benefit. We don't cheat - even with taxes, I pay the most amongst all my peers who do very dodgy stuff.
My parents are very noble people. There must be a misunderstanding somewhere in this. Even if there is a mistake, im sure it was done unwittingly or unknowingly. If to get a PC you have to specify if you have a 2nd home, I'm 1000% sure that my mother would have said - yes, we have a 2nd home - UNLESS she assumed that adding my name to the house meant taking hers off??? She could have assumed that.

Please, check with the DWP as I am unsure about state pension stuff and pension credits.

If your Dad is receiving his pension into his bank account, I believe the PC will be noted separately so you should be able to work out how much PC he has received.

How long has he owned the 2nd home? The one sticking point might be that if he never declared ownership of it to the DWP then he might not have been entitled to PC at all.

TELLIT01

zoxsa wrote: »

Well.. if we are transparent with the DWP about the re-mortgage and the reasons for it, and we tell them that we are at their service for any penalties that need to be paid, I'm SURE they will understand.

Highly unlikely. My friend's mother-in-law had a house which had been put into a Trust years ago primarily to protect her son's interests. The reasons that was necessary aren't relevant here. The M-I-L went into a care home and the local council had all the locks changed and a lien put on the property because they claimed the trust had been put in place to stop them charging for her care. Long story short, it took over 2 years to gain access and prove the council wrong. That despite the legal firm who handled the trust providing all the necessary information to the council from the outset. Moral is, don't expect government organisations to back off even with evidence!

zoxsa

TELLIT01 wrote: »

Highly unlikely. My friend's mother-in-law had a house which had been put into a Trust years ago primarily to protect her son's interests. The reasons that was necessary aren't relevant here. The M-I-L went into a care home and the local council had all the locks changed and a lien put on the property because they claimed the trust had been put in place to stop them charging for her care. Long story short, it took over 2 years to gain access and prove the council wrong. That despite the legal firm who handled the trust providing all the necessary information to the council from the outset. Moral is, don't expect government organisations to back off even with evidence!

There's no problem here. You've misunderstood the purpose of my thread I think.

WE WANT TO PAY THEM BACK. I want the investigation to finish. I triggered an investigation. I called them and wrote to them when I suspected there's something wrong.

you are writing as if I want to get out of it. No.

Right now all I want is to pay them, but I don't want the house seized. THat's all. I'm looking forward at paying them back.