appeal rejected by parkingeye, any chance to win in POPLA?

nitaa

After contacting with POPLA, I can view the evidence now, PE issue back a 40 pages pdf to provide their evidence.(most of pages are photos and appeal letter/ parking charge copies, not much useful infomation)
here is their statement:
1. grace period.
ParkingEye operates a minimum grace period of ten minutes or more on all sites which gives the motorist time to enter a car park, park, and establish whether or not they wish to be bound by the terms and conditions of parking.
A grace period of 10 minutes or more is in place at this site which is fully compliant with clauses 13.2 and 30.2 of BPA code of practice which states ‘If the parking location is one where parking is normally permitted, you must allow the driver a reasonable grace period in addition to the parking event before enforcement action is taken. In such instances the grace period must be a minimum of 10 minutes’.
obviously, they did not mention 13.4 at all, which also give minimum 10 mins for leave. I will rebut this.
2. signage
they show the ANRP image that my car did not had headlight on to prove it is bright day time to see signage clearly. and they post a few picture of their signage and quote:'You may use ANPR camera technology to manage, control and enforce parking in private car parks, as long as you do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. Your signs at the car park must tell drivers that you are using this technology and what you will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for.' they also state they are leading user of ANPR technology and ensure they have best camera, they list bpa section 21.1-21.5
obviously, they did not state ANPR use to calculate parking time and issue parking charge. and no evidence of well-maintained record.
3. they post my appeal letter on ,which I was polite to them and apologized for 5 mins delay in leaving. they want to show I am in down position.
4. they post the car park signage layout plan and leave some on site photos, the photos with time stamp in this April/May, which is about 3-4 months before I park, I am quite sure it is not the exactly same one when i was parking, but similar. the picture has tiny T&C letters even cannot read in their picture.
I will rebut this at poor signage part, please advice any other thing I can mention.
5. they show a landowner signed letter to agree the"operator PE issue a parking charges for the parkin gevent dates 4 April 2018 to 4th oct 2018"
the signature time is "4/10/2018", i do not know if it is signed on 10th Apr or 4th Oct, if it is the second, does that mean they do that after seeing my appeal with POPLA? is that OK?

please give any advice and I will try to type more details if needed.

Thanks for all advisors

Umkomaas

Don't forget, before you start drafting your rebuttal, that you only have 2,000 characters (not words) to utilise. Also, you cannot introduce any new evidence that you have not previously included (or alluded to) in your original POPLA appeal.

You have 7 days to send your rebuttal via the online facility - although effectively it's more like 6 days. Don't miss the deadline.

nitaa

Here is the structure of PE's evidence:
section A evidence check list (a table with ticks)
section B Case summary/rule and conditions (parking time and appeal date summary; attached authority letter signed on 4/10/2018 allowed PE to issue parking ticket; debate grace period refer to BPA 13.2 to emphasis they give 10 mins to enter and decide; state they are leading user of ANPR technology, listed BPA 21.1-21.5, how mature and widely used of network time protocol so their camera is accurate. )
section C copy of PCN
section D registered keeper detials/liability trail (my car details and photos I drove in/out car park with timestamp)
section E original representation (my 1st email to appeal to PE that I explain why I took 5 mins after end of park to leave)
section F images, photographs and site plan (many photos they took on site, closer look, far look, blur enough, and their site layout plan. )
Here is my rebut about 1400 charaters
SECTION B: ANPR. For the perspective of ANPR system, no matter how experienced ParkingEye(PE) is in using ANPR and how widely this technology have been used; PE still need to prove the cameras are well-maintained regularly to ensure the accuracy of the data captured by ANPR. I did not see any evidence about their maintenance and calibration.
SECTION B: Grace period. PE listed BPA code 13.2 that means they accept my parking started from 11:10am is valid, then for BPA code 13.4 also states the “Grace period at the end of parking period should be a minimum 10 minutes. “ Let us assume the ANPR is perfectly accurate, it showed I drove out of car park at 14:15, which is fully compliance with BPA 13.4
SECTION E: In my original appeal email, I explained clearly I used 5 minutes to manage my way out of car park, and it is what Grace period designed for. I was very polite and showed gesture of goodwill in the email does not mean I break the rule.
SECTION F: Signage. PE announced the car park has “clear, ample” signage. I cannot read T&C clearly in any picture PE attached in evidence (even on page 35 and 37, such a closer look picture cannot show the T&C clearly; picture on page 32, which is less than a car distance, only big bold letter is readable), how PE suppose driver should read that clearly when driving in a car? Furthermore, none of signage photo stated ANPR image data can violate parking ticket to calculate parking time and image data is use to issue parking charge notice. the signage is unclear either in meaning or in appearance.

anything more I should add?

nitaa

Guys, I received the decision from POPLA which said my appeal unsuccessful, decision said " I do not consider the 12 minutes at the end of the parking session to be within this reasonable period. "
I am so disappointed that I emphasis so many times, my ticket showed the start time is 11:10 and I leave at 14:15, which is only 5 mins overstay, but assessor still count start time using ANPR time. It is unfair since ANPR time is not visible for me during parking.
what I should do now? wait for the court prosecution or debt collector?

Quentin

Once POPLA appeal is rejected you go into the debt collector stage


All explained in the Newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum - see #4 there

nitaa

Guys, I am glad to say my ticket has been cancelled.
Here is the story after I lose my POPLA appeal.
After seeing the POPLA decision, I raise the complaint to POPLA immediately, I thought the assessor ignore the Entry Grace Period and made the wrong decision. Meanwhile, I complain to BPA (Approved Operator Scheme team, who accept the enquiries/complaint if any member breach BPA code) that their member (parkingeye) breach the BPA code of practice that not giving the Grace period defined in 13.2 and 13.4.
It was quite peace for the following few weeks, both POPLA and BPA not response very quick.
I did not received any letter from debt collector, instead, I received a LBCCC after 28 days of POPLA decsion. (see, when you lose the appeal, PE will not waste any money on debt collector, they just issue you the LBCCC without receiving money in 28 days)
My complaint to POPLA was answered 3 weeks later, without surprise, they did not change their decision.
BPA does take my complaint more serious and create an investigation case . (I insist entry grace period and leave grace period are 2 different grace period defined in BPA code, therefore I am fully compliant with that, any ticket against that will breach BPA Code)
and here is the reply I received from BPA today:

Good afternoon,
Thank you for your patience whilst we have approached the parking operator on your behalf.

I am advised that the charge has now been cancelled as a gesture of good will.

Please be advised in regards to the exit grace period, the Code of Practice states;

“13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.”

This period covers paying at the start of the parking contract and leaving at the end. It is not necessarily a full 10 minutes at the end of the period of parking and it is not in addition to the entry grace period because the entry grace period is only applicable if the motorist does not stay.

As the operator has responded accordingly, this case is now closed. Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention and assisting us to raise standards within the private parking sector.


This is a really good news for me as I am already started to prepare my court hearing!

Something I learnt from this case:
1. the BPA code now is not rigorous enough to cover the meaning above, therefore BPA may update that to avoid similar dispute in future. Everyone please be careful to avoid my situation.
2. always keep looking for all approach to escalate you issue if you do believe you have solid ground to make things change.
3. being calm and polite all the time during complaint, express your opinion clear and tough.

Thanks all the advisers in this forum.

Redx

thank you


I doubt that the BPA will change that wording at all


they will wait and see what the new Private Parking CoP says once it becomes law


https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/parkingcodeofpractice.html


well done for persevering though, and I think a judge may have taken a different view of those 2 grace periods

Umkomaas

Over the years the CoP has been watered down in favour of the BPA members. Once a 'nerve ending' started to be exposed, on went a sticking plaster to protect the PPCs from nasty motorists who were unfairly exploiting any opportunity.

But as Redx says, the CoP is now unlikely to have any further revisions as Parliament is lined up to impose one of their own on PPC world.

John_Blaze

so glad i sold my car

Fruitcake

John_Blaze wrote: »

so glad i sold my car

That won't help if you got a PCN in the preceding 6 years, but what has it got to do with the OP's situation?