Rental property - landlord wants to take photos to sell it...

Computer_Beginner

This landlord sounds dodgy.
He's not acting professionally.
Is he properly licensed?
Has he protected your deposit etc?
Is he declaring his rental income to HMRC?

I would stand up to him, if I was you.

If he wants to take photos inside, fine. But I would expect payment for the inconvenience. £500 sounds fair, considering the improvement to the sales price he gets for the house, that's a small sum. Get a receipt though. Just in case he forgets to mention this to HMRC etc.

AdrianC

pinklady21 wrote: »

We expect to be there for 6 - 9 months, and now about a third of the way through.
Scotland, PRT. Agreement silent on circumstances when property might be put up for sale. Usual eviction grounds apply, one of which would be the landlord wanting to sell the property.

I suspect I'm not alone in not being au fait with the relatively new Scottish PRTs.
https://beta.gov.scot/publications/private-residential-tenancies-tenants-guide/
No fixed period, 28 days written notice within the first 6mo, so long as it's on one of the 18 grounds...?


Wow. I thought the Scottish system was meant to be all fluffy bunnies and kittens compared to the harshness of us Sassenachs...

Landlord has now advised that he wants to put the property on the open market.

And that's one of those grounds...

On the one hand I don't wish to be obstructive, but on the other this seems to be an interruption of our quiet enjoyment.

Without notice? Definitely.

We have previously suggested that they use photos of the exterior, and we can supply pics of the property while it was empty just before we moved in.

Doesn't seem an unreasonable solution.

We were rather taken aback to hear that the landlord had shown an estate agent round the house already when we were not there and he had made suggestions of how we could "dress it" using our belongings!

The dressing suggestion is a bit cheeky... But the EA does need to access the property if he's going to be listing it.

Would like to try and reach some sort of reasonable compromise.

And I'm guessing that compromise includes you continuing to live there, right? You do not want to be moving again...

So you're going to need to be a bit accommodating. He does have every legal right to give you 28 days notice, it seems. So if you crack down hard on access, he's going to just say "OK, fine. I'll do it once you've moved out.", whereas there's the potential for saying "Look, let's be adult about this - I'm going to be gone in 3-6 months anyway, which includes Christmas and Hogmanay, so how about we stay while you market it, then we'll be accommodating when it gets near to the point at which our presence will actively hinder your sale." (I leave it to others to know how that fits around the conclusive missiles or whatever they are).

Tea and cake. Or Irn Bru and battered Mars bars.

Computer_Beginner

AdrianC wrote: »

I suspect I'm not alone in not being au fait with the relatively new Scottish PRTs.
https://beta.gov.scot/publications/private-residential-tenancies-tenants-guide/
No fixed period, 28 days written notice within the first 6mo,

And I'm guessing that compromise includes you continuing to live there, right? You do not want to be moving again...

So you're going to need to be a bit accommodating. He does have every legal right to give you 28 days notice, it seems. So if you crack down hard on access, he's going to just say "OK, fine. I'll do it once you've moved out

rs.

If you're right and the LL does have a strong hand regarding the tenancy agreement, then that's all the more reason for the tenant to check out if there's anything the LL may have "forgotten" to do. This may give the tenant a stronger card to play.

pinklady21

The Scottish PRT does not have an end date, the tenant may give 28 days notice at any time. The landlord may also give notice, which can be anything from 28 - 84 days depending on the grounds for eviction and how long the tenant has been resident.
However, this only formally brings the tenancy to an end, so if we were to decide to dig our heels in and refuse to leave, he would then have to apply to the First Tier Tribunal (FTT).

Of course, assuming he did everything properly, then he would get his order for possession, but the FTT is pretty strict on the technicalities, and I would not want to place any bets on his getting it right, given the manner he has behaved so far.

Sadly, not a professional landlord, and has not taken the time to educate himself on his responsibilities. I am rather fuming about it - I would prefer to remain on reasonable terms, but I am not the one in breach of the tenancy agreement!

While we have somewhere else to go and don't have any need for a landlord reference, I shudder to think what it is like to folks who are not as fortunate and find themselves at the mercy of a rogue landlord.

pinklady21

Norman_Castle wrote: »

Explain that you expect to be informed of future visits so that you can agree a time to be there. Quote the above clause to him.
Also suggest you don't have the time or patience to dress his house for sale. He can take it as it is or wait until you leave.

Thank you - I have just drafted a further email saying exactly that - it is not as though we intend to be there very long anyway, and he knows that. He is getting full rent and he can then have vacant possession before selling.
The sub text is that he knows it will probably take a long time to sell, so he wants to have his rental cake and be able to eat it too, while we have to suffer the inconvenience of estate agents and buyers traipsing through our home.
Grrr.

Computer_Beginner

pinklady21 wrote: »

The Scottish PRT does not have an end date, the tenant may give 28 days notice at any time. The landlord may also give notice, which can be anything from 28 - 84 days depending on the grounds for eviction and how long the tenant has been resident.
However, this only formally brings the tenancy to an end, so if we were to decide to dig our heels in and refuse to leave, he would then have to apply to the First Tier Tribunal (FTT).

Of course, assuming he did everything properly, then he would get his order for possession, but the FTT is pretty strict on the technicalities, and I would not want to place any bets on his getting it right, given the manner he has behaved so far.

Sadly, not a professional landlord, and has not taken the time to educate himself on his responsibilities. I am rather fuming about it - I would prefer to remain on reasonable terms, but I am not the one in breach of the tenancy agreement!

While we have somewhere else to go and don't have any need for a landlord reference, I shudder to think what it is like to folks who are not as fortunate and find themselves at the mercy of a rogue landlord.

If you did cause him problems and it went to FTT, could LL claim costs against you? As a home owner, you'd be in a potentially weak position and you may have to pay him - if he won a judgment.

So personally, I wouldn't push it so far that I was liable for costs, CCJ etc.

But if you can get him on deposit protection, EPC, etc, that's risk free for you.

pinklady21

Computer_Beginner wrote: »

If you did cause him problems and it went to FTT, could LL claim costs against you? As a home owner, you'd be in a potentially weak position and you may have to pay him - if he won a judgment.

So personally, I wouldn't push it so far that I was liable for costs, CCJ etc.

But if you can get him on deposit protection, EPC, etc, that's risk free for you.

No, the FTT is free.
I am already a landlord in Scotland, and fairly au fait with the requirements and responsibilties. I attend training regularly and do my best to stay up to date and be a decent landlord.
So I am also fairly shocked at his behaviour.....

akira181

If I'm reading the Scottish PRT correctly -

1. Landlord intends to sell the let property
This ground applies if your landlord plans on putting the property up for sale within three months of you moving out.

that to me means that he can only evict on grounds of selling the property when there's 3 months or less remaining on your current lease. And if you've been living there longer than 6 months, they need to give at least 84 days notice.

Give the LL a gentle reminder of the terms of the tenancy agreement and I'm sure cooler heads will prevail and you can come to an arrangement. Otherwise, you can dig your heels in like you said and be a proper PITA until you're ready to move out.

AdrianC

There are no fixed-period leases, so there is no end date on leases, remember?


I read at as if he's planning on starting the marketing within 3mo of the tenant moving out - and within 6mo of the tenant moving in, there's only 28 days needed.

theartfullodger

Bet he's fiddling something else: Registered landlord? Declaring all rent to taxman?

Thanks to The Leases Act 1449
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aosp/1449/6/contents

Item it is ordanit for the sauftie and fauour of the pure pepil that labouris the grunde that thai and al vthiris that has takyn or sal tak landis in tym to !!! fra lordis and has termes and yeris thereof that suppose the lordis sel or analy thai landis that the takaris sall remayn with thare takis on to the ische of thare termes quhais handis at euir thai landis !!! to for sic lik male as thai tuk thaim of befoir . . .

... that landlord sells the place does not end tenancy nor require tenant to leave.

Tell him you want between 50 & 100% off rent to permit any future visits to do with sale.. - surveys, valuations, viewings... If he refuses, tell him it's just gone up to 100-150% of rent, per month.

NB Note the perv*rted MSE censorship of good old decent of Scots words...