Current economic system & Housing

GreatApe

2008-2018
+500 MILLION net additional homes built
Three cheers for the worlds current economic system!

Car production is also an interesting indication of how wide and far wealth is spread as the upper middle class typically buy new cars. Car production was 58 million in the year 2000 now it is close to 100 million this year. If a new car buyer typically keeps a car for 3 years that means the world has added >360 million persons (>120 million cars over 3 year period @ 3 persons per car/family) to the upper middle class rank in less than 20 years!

The idea the left paint that the current economic system is fully and only for the rich is simply false. The current system has already over just a 18 year period created >360 million upper middle class people. This is even very conservative as I know a lot of quite wealthy people who have never bought a new car in their life.

The system is working it is working very very well
500 million additional homes were not built for the 1% and the next 500 million homes which will be built over the next decade are not for the 1%. Clearly wealth is spread far and wide. Its often just the measure of wealth we use are a bit !!!!. Look jeff bezos is too rich because his companies shares trade at x.... lets just ignore the 500 million families who didn't have homes a decade ago who now do.....clearly what shows the worlds system is broken is what some shares on the NASDAQ trade at not the number of homes or cars that the system builds for the masses.....

BikingBud

How about breaking those figures out into something meaningful.

Where in the world and the respective ratios in those countries?

A new car buyer keeps it for 3 years? You making things up on the spot?

Cars built doesn't necessarily mean owners as people are suckered by the rental of cars and the never never. They are never the owners merely the registered keepers and liable for all the costs. So the organisations ie the leaseholders cannot be any class that you may wish to pin upon them.

And what exactly is upper middle class?

Did you ever study mathematics? Averages? Mean? Median?

Herzlos

When did car ownership mean upper middle class?
It May in somewhere like China, but in the UK cars are available pretty cheap, and a huge number of new cars are bought via PCP to mask the cost.

There are more houses and more cars, but there are also more people in poverty, we're seeing increased waits for emergency services, increased occurrences of conditions caused by malnutrition such as rickets. For most, near the top, capitalism works. For an increasing number, it doesn't. But it's all those folk you write off a dysfunctional.

GreatApe

Herzlos wrote: »

When did car ownership mean upper middle class?

I use the term middle class more like the Americans do rather than the English definition whereby middle class means more so the top 10-20%

New car purchases are concentrated towards the richer end with mostly the top 10-20% buying. The average new car costs something like $35,000 sure there are new cars for £8k but the average is closer to $35,000 and you are not poor if you can afford a new $35,000 car

It May in somewhere like China, but in the UK cars are available pretty cheap, and a huge number of new cars are bought via PCP to mask the cost.

New cars are not cheap, there are some cheap new cars but the average is not cheap. I am well off and I have never purchased a new car. The fact that the world now builds nearly 40 million more new cars each and every year is a great statistic which clearly shows hundreds of millions of world citizens have entered the richer classes despite the nonsense lefty narrative that people are getting poorer while 'the 1%' take it all. Clearly BS

There are more houses and more cars, but there are also more people in poverty

I cringe when I read some of your stuff. How can you both say sure there are (will be) a billion additional homes from 2007-2027 and still think there are more people in poverty?

Who do you think is going to live in these 1 billion new homes? It is by and large people who currently have crappy or no homes

The truth is the world is getting so much richer and better so quickly it is amazing to see

we're seeing increased waits for emergency services, increased occurrences of conditions caused by malnutrition such as rickets.

BS

For most, near the top, capitalism works. For an increasing number, it doesn't. But it's all those folk you write off a dysfunctional.

Facts destroy your assertions.
1 billion new homes between 2007-2027
How does that square with your fantasy of 'for an increasing number capitalism doesn't work'
The exact opposite is true, the current economic system is savings hundreds of millions each year and keeping the developed countries wealthy

Herzlos

Why are we, in a UK forum, using a US "definition" of upper middle class?


Why are we discussing global house building?


Why do you think new cars are expensive? You can buy brand new from about £8k, and with PCP's can get a new car from about £100/month.
Sure, expensive cars are expensive, but cheap cars aren't.

BikingBud

@greatape

Any chance that you will answer the questions?

Or you just going to carry on spouting more froth and unjustified, disconnected and inappropriate stats?

Build a logical, fact-based argument and we can then have a proper discussion rather than just try to decipher the waffle that you provide.

Graham_Devon

One acronym will do in this scenario. !!!!!!.

GreatApe

BikingBud wrote: »

@greatape

Any chance that you will answer the questions?

Or you just going to carry on spouting more froth and unjustified, disconnected and inappropriate stats?

Build a logical, fact-based argument and we can then have a proper discussion rather than just try to decipher the waffle that you provide.

What are your questions? Do you mean these two stupid quesitons?
Why are we discussing global house building?
Because it shows the current global system which is predominantly free market capitalism is working very very well.

Why do you think new cars are expensive?

They are a households second biggest expense and in the EU/USA the median new car price is about $35,000 which is not cheap.

With that over....

The fact is over a 20 year period 2008-2028 the world is going to build 1 billion new homes which will house about 2.5 billion people and mostly this will be for the bottom and middle. The current system is working very well.

One of the important truths of the early part of this century is that housing is the biggest infrastructure project on earth and for each individual country too. So how would you rate the current economic system at meeting this need? By your thinking is 1 billion homes over a 20 year period a success or a failure? The current world economic system is producing capital for the masses at an astonishing rate you can look at housing to easily see this.

You dont have to leave housing to prove that things are going in an amazing direction but you can go look at the second biggest infrastructure project on earth. Cars

Cars, both the annual build rate and the stock of cars, is the second biggest infrastructure project on earth. Again when we look at cars we see the same amazing facts. Car production this year will be ~100 million units and if you take the global household size as say 3 and new car owners keeping a car typically for 3 years that means 300 million households with 900 million people are doing so well out of free market capitalism that they can afford to buy a hugely depreciating asset.

It isn't the 1% that is doing very well, it is at least the 15% that are doing very well and another 70-80% are doing good too.

Thrugelmir

GreatApe wrote: »

They are a households second biggest expense and in the EU/USA the median new car price is about $35,000 which is not cheap.

Majority sold on (cheap) finance deals. Simply pulling consumption forward. We are now seeing a dramatic slowdown in car sales globally. Bubbles do have a tendancy to burst eventually.

BikingBud

GreatApe wrote: »

What are your questions? Do you mean these two stupid quesitons?
Why are we discussing global house building?
Because it shows the current global system which is predominantly free market capitalism is working very very well.
They are a households second biggest expense and in the EU/USA the median new car price is about $35,000 which is not cheap.

With that over....

The fact is over a 20 year period 2008-2028 the world is going to build 1 billion new homes which will house about 2.5 billion people and mostly this will be for the bottom and middle. The current system is working very well.

One of the important truths of the early part of this century is that housing is the biggest infrastructure project on earth and for each individual country too. So how would you rate the current economic system at meeting this need? By your thinking is 1 billion homes over a 20 year period a success or a failure? The current world economic system is producing capital for the masses at an astonishing rate you can look at housing to easily see this.

You dont have to leave housing to prove that things are going in an amazing direction but you can go look at the second biggest infrastructure project on earth. Cars

Cars, both the annual build rate and the stock of cars, is the second biggest infrastructure project on earth. Again when we look at cars we see the same amazing facts. Car production this year will be ~100 million units and if you take the global household size as say 3 and new car owners keeping a car typically for 3 years that means 300 million households with 900 million people are doing so well out of free market capitalism that they can afford to buy a hugely depreciating asset.

It isn't the 1% that is doing very well, it is at least the 15% that are doing very well and another 70-80% are doing good too.

See post 2

GreatApe

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Majority sold on (cheap) finance deals. Simply pulling consumption forward. We are now seeing a dramatic slowdown in car sales globally. Bubbles do have a tendancy to burst eventually.

More propaganda by the left that hate the current system works amazingly well

Car production is not going down car production is increasing by around 1-2 million units each year.

Your argument of them being bought on finance so its not true wealth is just stupid.
Lets say a country builds some dams and provides electricity with it, by your argument the people with electricity are no better off than they were a year ago because you know the dam was built on finance. Or going back to houses. The person who buys a house with a mortgage is no better off because he used finance he should instead have stayed in his run down shanty town hut

As I keep saying to people on the left ignore money it is just confusing you just imagine you are an alien in a spaceship and looking down what do you see? You see an amazing progress where these little humans are going to build 1 billion homes over the next 20 years those 1 billion homes are not for 'the 1%' clearly they are for 'the 90%'

Things are going really well in the world and we have the worlds economic system to thank for it