Napier - Willem Lake

bobnickel

Hi All,


Just a few quick questions for now after reading the extensive initial information in the stickies and doing a bit of research myself.


Basically the problem is that the RK got a letter through the post from Napier after the Driver is alleged to have overstayed in the car park.


Napier is IPC so I am aware that there is no real legitimate / non lip-service appeal process.


So we come to the real matters that are to be considered.
1) It appears from my research that Napier have a proper contract (tested in court) with the trust to manage the car park
2) The alleged overstay looks to be on/over the borderline of grace periods
3) There was no windscreen ticket for the driver to collect, only a letter straight to the RK


Driver is contacting the relevant people on site.


So my question is what are the things I should now be focusing attention on with regard to challenging this ticket.


I am trying to get my head around POFA and all the dates etc. at the moment, but does anyone know if these guys are always POFA compliant and therefore this is not a good use of time?


Are there other angles I should now investigate?


Many thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Redx

I dont think the landowner will help judging by previous cases on here etc

you will have to check your NTK against POFA2012, both wording and timescales as well

if it passes both items, and is compliant , then that is an unlikely win for you, more likely they will win that aspect if they are POFA2012 compliant

you are then left with the following

NO LANDOWNER CONTRACT
POOR AND INDEQUATE SIGNAGE
NOT THE SAME AS BEAVIS
ANPR ERRORS
IPC CoP failures
eg :- GRACE PERIODS

etc

if you think they complied with all of those then its a valid pcn and it may be better for you or the keeper to pay it, as the alternative could well ba solicitors letter, an LBC letter , and then possibly an MCOL within 6 years

ie:- sometimes a person is bang to rights

so in order to beat this, you must find a chink in the armour and win on a technicality (same as most people do) , or win on a procedural or legal error

if you feel strongly about it, then you should argue your case in court if it goes that far, and let a judge decide

there is no MAGIC BULLET, so stop looking for one



all the other private parking ticket threads on here follow the same basics

bobnickel

Hi RedX, thanks for this.


I am looking into POFA now and trying to understand the rules they need to follow. For now it's clear to me they issued the NTK within a week of the event and am checking wording.


On other items:
* Landowner Contract - I am pretty sure this is in place
* The driver bought a ticket so not so sure we can claim the driver didn't see the signage
* Will look into Beavis
* It's not a ANPR car park
* Grace periods is very, very borderline indeed, would be a tenuous point in my opinion when put in front of a judge and could easily go either way. There is one mitigation I could possibly use but that would then rely on the judge's goodwill which is not something you can bank on.


Unless anyone else has suggestions will as you say look into POFA, BEAVIS and any COP breaches.


As you say, sometimes you are banged to rights, but in reality its not a fair way to manage parking, why an earth in modern times you have to guess how long you will stay in a car park when you first arrive as opposed to just pay at the end for what you use is utterly beyond me (but clearly not utterly beyond the scammers).

Redx

its an unregulated industry m8 , so what do you expect ?


its so bad that Sir Greg Knight has been discussing it in parliament and in the committee rooms over the last 15 months or more - have you watched those videos ?


or seen the progress of his private members bill ?


https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/parkingcodeofpractice.html


there may be reasons you could sway a judge in your favour , I dont dispute that, but it is what it is and the only way to beat this is to persuade a judge so only you can make that call, as its a lottery called judge bingo


there is a court case thread on here that concluded today and that person lost in court (shaftonred) and is very aggrieved about it, please read it


perhaps next year there will be a clear code of practice enshrined in law, but it wont help your case

Ralph-y

what where your overstay periods?


Ralph:cool:

Sinner21

Hi everybody, sorry to jump on this thread but I am not sure if I should open a new one.
My case is as follows: we went to Willen Lake with family that live abroad ( not UK citizens), we entered the parking close to Willen Lake, unloaded the kids just to realise that we can't stay due to bad weather. Everybody got into the car and we left - a stay of less than 20 min.
Registered keeper of the car was not even in the car and also RK did not update his latest address so the first FCN letter was missed. Now former landlord delivered to RK a second letter where it says that RK needs to pay in the next 14 day and that there is no opportunity to appeal.

Should the RK pay? If the driver was one of the foreign citizens, are there any exceptions? Should the RK appeal based on the fact that did not receive the first letter and try to pay the smaller amount offered in there? Does it matter that the stay was less that 20 min?

Thank you very much!

Coupon-mad

Should the RK pay?

No.

If the driver was one of the foreign citizens, are there any exceptions?

Yes, name the driver and give their foreign address and the rk is then untouchable, as is the driver abroad, and you will both be safe from this 'outrageous scam' (Hansard - from Feb and again on Friday in Parliament):

Watch the whole video of the Parliamentary debate from Friday, as this type of scam is described by MPs. Here is a link to the proceedings (commences at 12:04.50) and it IS worth bearing with it to hear the MPS condemn the entire industry:

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/e5b67de6-b2f5-4e03-98bf-52d40c8af2df

And search the forum for the keyword Germany and read the thread from last week, discussing why a person abroad is untouchable. Saves our typing fingers!