LBCC tactics Premier Park

Coupon-mad

Or just not talk about the protocol (seeing as they gave you 30 days, and presumbly enclosed the correct reply form?) and just do a letter to tell them why you dispute the charge and ask for a list of evidence and why the £100 charge is now £170 and how that money was spent?

Like here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74782756#Comment_74782756

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74841204#Comment_74841204

And word it as a SAR, like here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74796550#Comment_74796550

determinedtofight_2

[FONT=&quot]HELP!!@LoadsofChildren 123 - you've said I can no longer rely on this sentence in my LBC rebuttal "I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b)." as there are new rules and I need new para references but you didn't say what they are.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I've re- read the Practice Direction and I think I should say [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]"I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(c) and 14(a)of the Practice Direction in order to comply with my own obligations in the Practice Direction"[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]URGENT ADVICE PLEASE DEADLINE FOR REPLY SOON
[/FONT][/FONT]

Quentin

Have you read #22 above??

(#21 above gives advice on your question!!)

Coupon-mad

I need new para references

Why? Do you even understand the letter? Thought not, in which case, do NOT use it.

I advised you NOT to reply like that, it's waffly and 'templatey' and as I said, if PP have given you 30 days and enclosed the required Reply Forms, on what basis are you thinking you can throw the pre-action protocol at them?

Concentrate on what I told you to do, that will help you to defend the case.

determinedtofight_2

OK thanks for the new advice - I've pretty much ditched the template and just written my mostly my own letter which actually I'm happier with. All comment appreciated


I have received your Letter of Claim dated xx/xx/xx which you stated required a response by xx/xx/xx

Your letter contains insufficient details of the claim and fails to provide copies of all evidence upon which you will rely in court.

Please treat this letter as a formal request under the Pre-Action Protocol for the documents and information required.
I insist my letter is treated as a 'Subject Access Request' (SAR) and handled by your Data Protection Officer accordingly, and that due to the SAR in progress, as the data subject, I require that all data processing must cease/be restricted until the SAR process is completed. I have also enclosed another SAR asking for more information separate from this claim regarding my personal data.

As I have insisted from the start of this process - there is no contract as stated and hence no debt

I require you to comply with your Pre-Action Protocol obligations by sending me the following information and/or documents: -

1.Are you pursuing me as Driver or Keeper of the Vehicle(your letter is unclear on this point)?
2.A copy of the contract with the landowner under which you claim authority to act
3.A copy of any contracts with on/off-site retailers varying the standard conditions of the contract
4.A copy of any alleged contract with the driver
5.A copy of the ticket issued by the machine
6.A plan of the car park showing position of lights in relation to signs
7.Evidence that the lights were working on the night in question
8.Provide details of any actions taken when you increased the hours for which a tariff is payable, including specifically any provision of additional signage. As per the BPA CoP 18.10 [FONT=&quot]Where there is a change in the terms and conditions that materially affects the motorist then you must make these terms and conditions clear on your signage. Where such changes impose liability where none previously existed then you must consider a transition to allow regular visitors to the site to adjust and familiarise themselves with the changes. Best practice would be the installation of additional/temporary signage at the entrance and throughout the site making it clear that new terms and conditions apply. This will ensure such that regular visitors who may be familiar with the previous terms become aware of the new ones.[/FONT]
9.All photographic evidence you will be relying on - please enclose associated metadata (e.g EXIF files)
10.Please indicate how the additional £70 is a reasonable charge for debt recovery fees as indicated by section 23.1(b) of the BPA Code of Practice and provide evidence of expenditure on debt recovery since the claim for £100
11. A copy of your Privacy Impact Assessment, made before ANPR surveillance and enforcement started.
12. How I was alerted to the presence of ANPR surveillance and my rights to data subject access

Please reply on a point by point basis to my numbered requests

Until you have complied with these obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to further consider my position in relation to it.
I look forward to your prompt reply to provide the requested information
Yours faithfully


Second letter as SAR

[FONT=&quot]Data Subject Access Request[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Please advise as to the following:[/FONT]

1. [FONT=&quot]provide me with the categories of personal data you have about me in your files and databases.[/FONT]
   1. [FONT=&quot]In particular, please tell me what you know about me in your information systems, whether or not contained in databases, and including e-mail, documents on your networks, or voice or other media that you may store, including any form of text messaging or instant messaging between employees of Premier Park (including personal messages to the extent that they were used for work purposes)[/FONT]
   2. [FONT=&quot]Additionally, please advise me in which countries my personal data is stored, or accessible from. In case you make use of cloud services to store or process my data, please include the countries in which the servers are located where my data are or were (in the past 12 months) stored.[/FONT]
   3. [FONT=&quot]Please provide me with a copy of, or access to, my personal data that you have or are processing.[/FONT]
2. [FONT=&quot]Please provide me with a detailed accounting of the specific uses and lawful basis that you have made, are making or will be making of my personal data.[/FONT]
3. [FONT=&quot]Please provide a list of all third parties with whom you have (or may have) shared my personal data.[/FONT]
   1. [FONT=&quot]If you cannot identify with certainty the specific third parties to whom you have disclosed my personal data, please provide a list of third parties to whom you may have disclosed my personal data.[/FONT]
   2. [FONT=&quot]Please also identify which jurisdictions that you have identified in 1-1 above that these third parties with whom you have or may have shared my personal data, from which these third parties have stored or can access my personal data. Please also provide insight in the legal grounds for transferring my personal data to these jurisdictions. Where you have done so, or are doing so, on the basis of appropriate safeguards, please provide a copy.[/FONT]
   3. [FONT=&quot]Additionally, I would like to know what safeguards have been put in place in relation to these third parties that you have identified in relation to the transfer of my personal data.[/FONT]
4. [FONT=&quot]Please advise how long you store my personal data, and if retention is based upon the category of personal data, please identify how long each category is retained.[/FONT]
5. [FONT=&quot]If you are additionally collecting personal data about me from any source other than me, please provide me with all information about their source[/FONT]
6. [FONT=&quot]If you are making automated decisions about me, including profiling, , please provide me with information concerning the basis for the logic in making such automated decisions, and the significance and consequences of such processing.[/FONT]
7. [FONT=&quot]In conducting a search please ensure that search terms include for my full name, my initials, the short name or any name or variation of it and any other linked data which together with other data in your control which could identify me (e.g Vehicle Registration).[/FONT]

8. In the event that you do not disclose any of the documents mentioned above, I would be grateful if you could confirm that a search has been conducted and no results have been found. I may in due course, request sight of the search terms that were used and the results of the searches conducted.
9. A response should be sent within the 40 days required by the Data Protection Act
Yours faithfully

Coupon-mad

Much better!

determinedtofight_2

OK off in the post it goes - thanks for all your helpand encouragement. Sorry for testing everyone's patience with stupid questions and not searching the forum - you're all veterans this is my first time. Let's see what happens. No doubt I'll be back- Premier Park seem to be persistent pests

determinedtofight_2

Just received a reply from Premier Park attempting to answer my rebuttal letter. I've scanned and shared it here along with the contract and plan of the car park -for which I have photos showing that large parts of it are unilluminated and my route in and to the payment machine used this portion of the car park.



They went to great lengths redacting with biro the name of the landowner on the contract and then left it un-redacted later on! Letter from me now going to landowner. Does the contract make Premier Park the principal in the action or the agent of the landowner? Does it make a difference?



The points numbered in the letter do not match my numbered points and so it is not easy to work out which refers to which - it also refers to some of the documentation being available in the response to my SAR which I haven't received yet so does the 30 day notice before court action they've given me apply?


I think their point 10 refers to the £70 debt recovery fee for which I asked for evidence of expenditure, which cannot be a contractual sum as it does not appear on their signage - only "additional costs". They've also (I think) failed to reply regarding signs alerting users to the change of terms.



Is it worth replying pointing out I can't understand how their numbered points refer to mine and that as I haven't yet received my SAR reply I don't have all the documents so they can't apply 30 days notice? Or just use this letter as evidence of their incompetence in my defence?


Also in responding to my SAR they asked for proof of identity (fair enough) but also for proof of ownership i.e a V5 certificate which I refused :

"I do not see why you are additionally requesting the V5 Certificate linking me to a VRN as you have already obtained that information from the authoritative legal source, the DVLA, and providing a V5 certificate provides data you already hold and is therefore a duplication and as such breaches the Data Protection Principle of data minimisation. You should be following the guidance of the ICO : "personal data should be limited to what is necessary – you do not hold more than you need for that purpose."

Coupon-mad

Does the contract make Premier Park the principal in the action or the agent of the landowner? Does it make a difference?

Makes no difference to you.

In the alleged contract for parking, PP are the principle, offering something.

In the landowner contract, the landowner is the principle and can order cancellation.

Is it worth replying pointing out I can't understand how their numbered points refer to mine and that as I haven't yet received my SAR reply I don't have all the documents so they can't apply 30 days notice?

Yes, why not, show them you are not taking this lying down, and the case will not be an easy one for them against you as you are tenacious and a person who has an eye for detail.