The likely outcome is dismissal

agrinnall

Smodlet wrote: »

Something tells me it was no one sheet of A4. Who doesn't know someone who has a printer that can do that? Hell, the nearest library/off licence can probably do that.

But equally who wouldn't just print it at work if that was the easiest option and there were no hard rules in place to prevent it? I certainly would if I wanted a colour print as I now only have a monochrome laser at home.

chancesare_2

A lot of replies and I'm trying to thank you but posts like the below are pointless and I really don't get them. Don't breathe if it is too much trouble....I will knock you on ignore so neither of us have to cope with your responses....

Energize wrote: »

"Your neighbour" right....

chancesare_2

steampowered wrote: »

In law the words "gross misconduct" have a very specific meaning. An employer needs to prove something very serious and deliberate in order to justify a "gross misconduct" dismissal. Typically "gross misconduct" means something such as serious as stealing from your employer or punching a fellow member of staff.

As Sangie595 said, printing a piece of A4 paper on a work printer on a one-off occasion is not gross misconduct. Trying to claim that it is gross misconduct is not a position that could be defended at Employment Tribunal.

If the employer tried to use something pretty minor as an excuse to get rid of somebody, the Employment Tribunal would see straight through that.

This does assume of course that you have told us all the key facts, and that there isn't some angle to this you haven't told us about.

I am not holding anything back here, this is second-hand...I am asking as the parents (yes they are in their 60's and are beside themselves - they are my friends. The person involved is their son = he's a man in his own right. I am asking for them all - it's not my area of expertise....

Smodlet wrote: »

Something tells me it was no one sheet of A4. Who doesn't know someone who has a printer that can do that? Hell, the nearest library/off licence can probably do that.

Hell the nearest library is probably 50 miles! - Seriously I don't know issue with the printer, I think it was more a 'oh I can print it in the morning at work' rather than anything else.

agrinnall wrote: »

But equally who wouldn't just print it at work if that was the easiest option and there were no hard rules in place to prevent it? I certainly would if I wanted a colour print as I now only have a monochrome laser at home.

Yes, I think *knowing the chap as I do, that this is quite possibly the case.

Thanks to all for the helpful advice (good or bad - I'm not judging) but to the trolls that think I'm the "neighbour" then ask yourselves if it really matters - I don't care what you think - I'm happy to hear the OTHER good advice.

sangie595

I'm not interested in whether it's a neighbour or not. I am interested in whatever the rest of the story is, because no employer, even the daftest of employers, would consider dismissing someone over a piece of patter and ink costing pennies. But here's the thing. He's a graphic designer. That's a pretty intense job. A lot of using computers these days. A lot of printing these days. And I'm not a graphic designer. But I am a very keen photographer. Image is very important to me too. Which is why I have a really excellent printer at home. They are not even expensive these days. I can buy a great printer for less than the cost I used to pay for developing my films. Ok, it was a lot of films, but seriously, not that many! Why would a graphic designer who depends on image not have good printer?

I'm not having a go at you here. It's a genuine question. When dealing with members, most of us have a "first line" comment. "I don't care what you did. I don't care how stupid you were. I don't care what you might or might not deserve. I do care that I don't go in there and get blindsided by the employer telling me something you didn't tell me. It's no skin off my nose, cos I'm going home with a job at the end of the day whatever happens. But I'm the only thing inbetween your employer, you and whether you go home with a job at the end of the day. So tell the truth".

I honestly think that you need to try the line out on your neighbour. I could draw you up a list of some of the worst employers in the country, and none of them would sack someone over a piece of paper, never mind call it gross misconduct. There's another part to the story. You might want to start off with whether he happens to be working for clients on the side!..... Most employers might take using their resources to compete with them rather badly....

steampowered

To be clear, when I said I was assuming you told us all the facts, I wasn't trying to imply that you have held anything back.

It is simply a disclaimer - which I felt necessary because my advice that "printing a piece of A4 on an employer's printer isn't gross misconduct" is quite bullish. I have been around the block a few times and seen many cases where people don't reveal at the outset information that later turns out to be key. This is usually completely unintentional - in stressful situations it is only natural for people to subconsciously focus on the facts that support their case. And of course you can only go on what your neighbour has told you.

Likewise, the employer may well have a different angle on this which your neighbour has not considered. It will be difficult for your neighbour to know the full facts until he attends the disciplinary hearing and hears the full case against him.

I think in this situation the neighbour needs to go to the disciplinary hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst, and decide on what he is going to do when he knows the outcome.

The "best case" scenario is keeping his job and perhaps getting a warning. This is very possible. The "worst case" scenario is getting dismissed - he can then think about whether he wants to go down the Employment Tribunal route or not.

Smodlet

There just has to be more to this; what was the print for? A competitor? Was it 1 page or 100s? Was it paper or some really expensive material?

Until these questions are answered there is no context in which to understand the situation.

Were it really only one sheet of A4, one is reminded of the scene in "The Office" where Dawn was reprimanded for "stealing" a post-it note.

We are going around in circles so no further useful advice is likely to be forthcoming, imho.

Dox

chancesare wrote: »

Naturally he is gutted that he did something so silly in using the printer and has an otherwise exemplary record at the firm, he's been there for 3 years.

An exemplary record for 3 years, and he's expecting to be fired for using a company printer once? I'm with the 'this doesn't make any sense' brigade. If that really is the full story I sincerely hope he doesn't lose his job.

Smodlet

Dox wrote: »

An exemplary record for 3 years, and he's expecting to be fired for using a company printer once? I'm with the 'this doesn't make any sense' brigade. If that really is the full story I sincerely hope he doesn't lose his job.

Perhaps the issue is what he printed; were it a price list of his employer's products...

Again, without the full story, this is pointless.

LilElvis

The seemingly disproportionate charge might be an indication that it is being used as a means to an end - a way of cheaply and quickly terminating an employee. It's a very small company - they may be in financial difficulties or simply no longer have need for a graphic designer. It would go some way in explaining their "hammer to crack a nut" approach.

chancesare_2

LilElvis wrote: »

The seemingly disproportionate charge might be an indication that it is being used as a means to an end - a way of cheaply and quickly terminating an employee. It's a very small company - they may be in financial difficulties or simply no longer have need for a graphic designer. It would go some way in explaining their "hammer to crack a nut" approach.

It would seem this is the likely scenario. Two other members of staff have been given notice today. One was on a year long temporary contract and has been given garden leave of 1 week and the second has been told to work a weeks notice.

Of all people, my postie mentioned something out of the blue, which seems to suggest the company has financial issues.