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The likely outcome is dismissal
Comments
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Quite, because there is at least one omission from the story - how the original file was brought into the office in order to be printed. Laptop, cd, memory stick, emailed attachment? Many employers don't allow non-companyl devices to be connected to their networks because of the risk of infecting their system or company information being copied and taken home, possibly breaching many rules 're confidential materials.
+1
I'd say given the "neighbour" is a graphic designer, hes maybe been doing more in working hours than printing "one" graphic - this might be what they've been able to pin on him though (or all the "neighbour" is admitting to)0 -
As others have said, he has taken company property so its not looking good.
Has he offered to pay for the costs of the print (is it the sort of thing that could be done on a home printer or was it some sort of specialised thing like onto a plastic banner?). Apologising profusely and offering to put right what's happened would be where I'd start.
From my understanding it was a bog standard piece of A4....MacMickster wrote: »Perhaps the nature of the printed material suggests that the neighbour has been doing freelance work on the side, then using his employer's equipment for his own personal gain. Or, in saying that it was a print for his portfolio, he was using his employer's time and facilities to to try to get another job.
As others have said, gross misconduct seems a bit extreme if he has used a simple printer for a single sheet of A4. I suspect that there is rather more to the story that we don't yet know.
My first impressions are that GM seems way too heavy handed, but you may be right, there is probably more to the story.I have to admit, on the face of it, given these facts and assuming we are talking about one piece of paper and some printer ink, this would never hold up as a dismissal, never mind a gross misconduct! Yes it was wrong. Yes it's not excusable. But it's also ridiculous and even a tribunal would see that.
Which would prompt me to ask "What's the real truth?" and "what haven't you told me?"
Again I concur. All I will say is I've know the family for over 40 years. We live in a tiny hamlet and they are our nearest neighbours. They farm (or the parents do/did) and the "boy" did good and went to Uni and got a decent job here.Does it say the LIKELY outcome will be dismissal or POSSIBLE outcome could be dismissal?
If it says "likely outcome" that sounds like your friend could go to the meeting and say someone had a gun to his head to print it off and they would still sack him. I am no HR expert but that sounds wrong.
I've seen the text, it says LIKELY. With my background in contract law I took that to be wrong in so much as guilt seems apportioned before the case has been given by the complainant.Quite, because there is at least one omission from the story - how the original file was brought into the office in order to be printed. Laptop, cd, memory stick, emailed attachment? Many employers don't allow non-companyl devices to be connected to their networks because of the risk of infecting their system or company information being copied and taken home, possibly breaching many rules 're confidential materials.
I don't know how the file was taken in.+1
I'd say given the "neighbour" is a graphic designer, hes maybe been doing more in working hours than printing "one" graphic - this might be what they've been able to pin on him though (or all the "neighbour" is admitting to)
"Neighbour"? Why have you felt the need to quote neighbour? If you disbelieve the story then jog on to another thread.0 -
While he's guilty of what they say he did GM seems an overreaction for using a printer for a personal item - was it one page or many? I'm guessing he's not in a union otherwise he'd probably have gone to them for advice, but if he is sacked it might be worth getting some legal advice on whether that is a reasonable outcome or not, and if the latter he can consider an ET.
From my understanding it was an A4 page. I will ask about a union but I doubt it, it's a small business (husband, wife, 5 or 6 employees)....I may be wrong.You must be very close to your neighbour for him to disclose so much detail on what's happening...
I am not sure what you mean by that....are you a troll?On the face of it the punishment seems excessive for the crime. If he genuinely only printed a single copy of a graphic it would certainly seem possible that they have jumped on it because they want him out for some reason. On the other hand, if he printed many copies their action may be seen as justified.
All he can do is so in an try to plead his case. Resigning isn't a sensible route as the employer could still say in a reference that he resigned whilst under investigation for gross misconduct.
I felt it seemed excessive (given what I've been told).
I told him to have a chat with ACAS and I've done a little research with a view to seeing the family tomorrow, before the "meeting".0 -
What is the reasoning behind him resigning?
The letter is stating a likely outcome from GM is dismissal. It will say this in his policy and procedures too. Doesn't mean it will be.
He isn't necessarily going to resign, I think he was asking if that was the best option.
My concern was the wording of the "likely" dismissal sentence. Likely doesn't sound like a fair hearing to me......does he have to have a fair hearing or is it a case of the employer saying bye bye? I have no idea.0 -
Well he is guilty. Clear cut and with admission.
3 years clean service. If he wants to stay then its time to apologise and hope for a level of warning (I think final warning is best they can hope for)
He put his hands up when tackled initially, it seems they are intent on him going. It does seem rather heavy handed - for what I know (and I want to stress that bit).0 -
I would go to the meeting, and listen, then eat hugh amount of humble pie, put his case, yes I was wrong, yes it was one sheet of A4 or what ever, apologies again, sit and wait to see what happens.
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No idea of the legalities... I wonder just how much the small, family (?) firm have. Guessing they have no HR dept.
I think it really does depend on context but, if he has been there more than 2 years, he has the option of a tribunal for unfair dismissal. I, too think there must be more to this story. Surely, if he is a graphic designer, he must have a printer of his own? I would have thought, a half way decent one. If he needed speciality printing, there are outlets which offer this.
If your neighbour really needed to use his employer's printer for a legitimate purpose, why would he not just ask permission and offer to pay for the cost? I think there's the rub.0 -
In law the words "gross misconduct" have a very specific meaning. An employer needs to prove something very serious and deliberate in order to justify a "gross misconduct" dismissal. Typically "gross misconduct" means something such as serious as stealing from your employer or punching a fellow member of staff.
As Sangie595 said, printing a piece of A4 paper on a work printer on a one-off occasion is not gross misconduct. Trying to claim that it is gross misconduct is not a position that could be defended at Employment Tribunal.
If the employer tried to use something pretty minor as an excuse to get rid of somebody, the Employment Tribunal would see straight through that.
This does assume of course that you have told us all the key facts, and that there isn't some angle to this you haven't told us about.
At this stage there is no benefit to resigning. I think your friend just has to go to the meeting, explain the situation, apologise and confirm he won't do it again. If he does get dismissed then he can think about whether he wants to go down the Employment Tribunal route or not.0 -
Something tells me it was no one sheet of A4. Who doesn't know someone who has a printer that can do that? Hell, the nearest library/off licence can probably do that.0
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"Your neighbour" right....
Gross misconduct is for serious matters not trivial ones like printing off 1 piece of paper.0
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