Speaking polish to polish customers

Amara

sitesafe wrote: »

In this situation, assuming the home is in England and most of the residents know English surely most of the residents that lived there should have been able to understand what is being said around them - especially if they are vulnerable and they are being cared for.

This polish couple were cleaners, no carers and we've never spoken polish in front of residents. We talked privately only , but we've been told to not do it, as it's rude.

Smodlet

Amara wrote: »

This polish couple were cleaners, no carers and we've never spoken polish in front of residents. We talked privately only , but we've been told to not do it, as it's rude.

And there you have it, Amara, so you knew the answer all along. <Ducks>

Before you throw any more brickbats, my thing at school was languages. I regret I never became proficient in any of them but that's moot now.

To speak a language you know for a fact not everyone within earshot understands is rude. It may not be considered as rude now as it once was but neither are a great many things... Playing your car stereo at deafening volumes is just one example; inviting someone to dinner then spending the entire time on your damned phone is another. I have hundreds.

Surely there must be a compromise which can work for everyone in this situation, if not more than one? For instance, why can the Polish speaking employee not greet customers in English and, upon being replied to in Polish, glance around the room and say to the customer, in Polish, "One moment, please" then to the room "Does anyone mind if I speak Polish to this customer as it is easier for them?" then converse with the Polish customer in their first language?

It is called manners, consideration, empathy. Once upon a time children had these dinned into them from the day they could understand any language. Unfortunately for those of us well on our way down the other side of the hill, we have had to sink to the level of what is now considered acceptable behaviour in order to communicate with those who never learned manners.

I feel better.

miriamac

Smodlet wrote: »

To speak a language you know for a fact not everyone within earshot understands is rude.
.

Why?

Unless "everyone within earshot" wants to eavesdrop (rude!) why should it matter what language two people choose for their own conversation?

Smodlet

miriamac wrote: »

Why?

Unless "everyone within earshot" wants to eavesdrop (rude!) why should it matter what language two people choose for their own conversation?

For the same reason whispering is considered rude. If you disagree with that too, our perceptions of what is rude differ. I think I already covered that.

Tabbytabitha

Smodlet wrote: »

And there you have it, Amara, so you knew the answer all along. <Ducks>

Before you throw any more brickbats, my thing at school was languages. I regret I never became proficient in any of them but that's moot now.

To speak a language you know for a fact not everyone within earshot understands is rude. It may not be considered as rude now as it once was but neither are a great many things... Playing your car stereo at deafening volumes is just one example; inviting someone to dinner then spending the entire time on your damned phone is another. I have hundreds.

Surely there must be a compromise which can work for everyone in this situation, if not more than one? For instance, why can the Polish speaking employee not greet customers in English and, upon being replied to in Polish, glance around the room and say to the customer, in Polish, "One moment, please" then to the room "Does anyone mind if I speak Polish to this customer as it is easier for them?" then converse with the Polish customer in their first language?

It is called manners, consideration, empathy. Once upon a time children had these dinned into them from the day they could understand any language. Unfortunately for those of us well on our way down the other side of the hill, we have had to sink to the level of what is now considered acceptable behaviour in order to communicate with those who never learned manners.

I feel better.

Sorry, I think that's ridiculous and nothing to do with rudeness. By your logic, speaking to English people in English would be rude if there were non English speakers present.

Smodlet

Tabbytabitha wrote: »

Sorry, I think that's ridiculous and nothing to do with rudeness. By your logic, speaking to English people in English would be rude if there were non English speakers present.

Not in England, it wouldn't. If the Polish/whatever speakers can't be bothered to learn English, their bad. Just as it would be English speakers' problem if they could not be bothered to learn at least basic Spanish before going to live in Spain. Holidays are a bit different, are they not? One expects more leeway when going to another country to give them money, does one not?

Oooo, racist! I hear you cry. There is nothing whatever racist in expecting immigrants to whatever country to learn to speak the native language. Were I to move to Wales, I would consider learning Welsh even though I believe 80% of the population do not, most of whom were born there. It used to be 85%.

miriamac

Smodlet wrote: »

For the same reason whispering is considered rude. If you disagree with that too, our perceptions of what is rude differ. I think I already covered that.

It strikes me that this comes back to the 'fear' that the whispering or speaking in another language is simply a means to talk about the other people present.

Again, why? If surely takes a high level of insecurity or arrogance to assume that others are talking about 'you', when they have their own personal lives to think about and share.

I'd far rather people whispered their personal life to their hair stylist instead of broadcasting it to all within earshot

Tabby has already made the other point which crossed my mind when reading your earlier post.

Amara

Smodlet wrote: »

And there you have it, Amara, so you knew the answer all along. <Ducks>

Before you throw any more brickbats, my thing at school was languages. I regret I never became proficient in any of them but that's moot now.

To speak a language you know for a fact not everyone within earshot understands is rude. It may not be considered as rude now as it once was but neither are a great many things... Playing your car stereo at deafening volumes is just one example; inviting someone to dinner then spending the entire time on your damned phone is another. I have hundreds.

Surely there must be a compromise which can work for everyone in this situation, if not more than one? For instance, why can the Polish speaking employee not greet customers in English and, upon being replied to in Polish, glance around the room and say to the customer, in Polish, "One moment, please" then to the room "Does anyone mind if I speak Polish to this customer as it is easier for them?" then converse with the Polish customer in their first language?

It is called manners, consideration, empathy. Once upon a time children had these dinned into them from the day they could understand any language. Unfortunately for those of us well on our way down the other side of the hill, we have had to sink to the level of what is now considered acceptable behaviour in order to communicate with those who never learned manners.

I feel better.

No, I didn't know the answer. It didn't stop English workers to talk in local Yorkshire dialect in my presence, I couldn't understand. I don't mean Yorkshire accent, but dialect, very hard to understand to someone, who is not local, let alone foreign.



Thank you all for replies. I'll suggest to my friend to ask her boss for exact instructions, what should she do and how to react, if customer will talk to her in polish.

miriamac

Smodlet wrote: »

Not in England, it wouldn't. If the Polish/whatever speakers can't be bothered to learn English, their bad. Just as it would be English speakers' problem if they could not be bothered to learn at least basic Spanish before going to live in Spain. Holidays are a bit different, are they not? One expects more leeway when going to another country to give them money, does one not?

Oooo, racist! I hear you cry. There is nothing whatever racist in expecting immigrants to whatever country to learn to speak the native language. Were I to move to Wales, I would consider learning Welsh even though I believe 80% of the population do not, most of whom were born there. It used to be 85%.

But you're blurring the lines of your argument. Now it's not about 'being rude', it's about other 'expectations '.

silverwhistle

It's a matter of common sense. When I lived in Italy I knew a few English people and every couple of months or so we'd meet up and have a natter in English, and share experiences, comment on the vagaries of Italian school system and generally revel in the linguistic ease which even with good Italian you wouldn't share (see dDesdemona's post). I can pun in Italian but it's not the same!

If there was a party with Italian speakers you would code switch according to necessity. Some of the Italian guests would have very little English, others would want to practise it, there might be visiting English speaking relatives to throw in the mix. Everybody seemed to cope, all it needed was politeness, flexibility and common sense. The boss in this case doesn't seem to have them.