Using Money Claim Online service against a car salesman?

NeilCr

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

I'm under the impression that he probably hasn't been talking to Trading Standards. He's frequently referred to them as that but then to go off topic (i know some people here like that!) he'll refer to his S&S ISA as his 'pension' because A) it rolls off the tongue better and pensions are always (mostly?) for retirement which is what his contributions are for. Point is - he doesn't always call things what they are. Often due to lack of knowledge/understanding/laziness.


I've googled the phone number he's been calling and it seems to be Consumer Rights, not Trading Standards. 03454040506. Again i'd argue Trading Standards is a more commonly known/used name which i'm guessing is how he keeps referring to it as TS. Regardless, it doesn't really matter greatly.

For clarity - and not just for you OP. The Consumer Helpline is a completely different entity to Trading Standards. You can report traders to TS through the Consumer Helpline - that's the only contact an individual can, usually, have with them.

This is what they do and how to contact them (for anyone reading the thread)

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/get-more-help/if-you-need-more-help-about-a-consumer-issue/

The Consumer Helpline provides impartial advice on (surprise, surprise) consumer issues. Like CAB (which are the bureaux you see in many places) I would be surprised if they gave an opinion on the strength of a possible MCol case - for the reasons I outlined in my earlier post.

If you are talking about MCol getting the name right does matter. I have spent quite a bit of time in the past on the Parking Tickets board. They help a lot of people going through the Small Claims process and one thing they will say is that you have to be accurate and honest which includes the completion of the form.

You are looking for advice.. I would never comment on the case, itself, but I'd strongly suggest you speak to your brother and advise him that he cannot afford to go off topic, have a lack of knowledge, be lazy, not understand, say he has spoken to an organisation when he hasn't when he is in front of a judge - presuming it gets that far.

I take it that your brother has sent an LBA?

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/taking-legal-action/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

JustAnotherSaver

NeilCr wrote: »

If you are talking about MCol getting the name right does matter. I have spent quite a bit of time in the past on the Parking Tickets board. They help a lot of people going through the Small Claims process and one thing they will say is that you have to be accurate and honest which includes the completion of the form.

That's why he's not yet submitted this N1 form - because he doesn't want to make a mistake in filling it out.


It's all so easy for anyone outside of this to say well he should just learn what to do & he should just read a page from somewhere & have instant knowledge as though everyone can do it so easily.


Except he's not the sharpest. Never has been. Not to say i am all knowing either but i'm here trying to help him so he doesn't make a mistake along the way. He struggles to explain things, to put things in to words - again why i'm here trying to help him.


I've had a look at the N1 form myself and while i think i know what to put where i'm not 100% certain.



The name & address (of the garage) for example. Sounds simple right? But when you read the .pdf notes for the claimant it seems to complicate matters.



If you're suing an individual. If you're suing an unincorporated business, a registered business. You seem to have to write it differently for each. All we know is they're just a garage.



Then there's the brief description of the claim question and the particulars of the claim. To me it sounds like the same question although obviously it mustn't be.



And at what point do you mention the garage report where the garage backs up the faults with the car and has stamped the letter to say so since this must only help the case?!


All things i have an idea about but i'm not 100% certain about - which i'd like to be when A) paying and going through the courts.

You are looking for advice.. I would never comment on the case, itself, but I'd strongly suggest you speak to your brother and advise him that he cannot afford to go off topic, have a lack of knowledge, be lazy, not understand, say he has spoken to an organisation when he hasn't when he is in front of a judge - presuming it gets that far.

As said, he struggles to put his point across in words & that wont change.



He did get on the phone today to CAB and was told that they've helped him as far as they can now and gave him another phone number to call (turned out to also be CAB) or that he could go in to his local CAB for advice on how to complete the form.


Problem is they're only open Monday-Friday, even the phone line.


So he called the phone number at 1, went through the menu system & was put in a queue. He was on hold for his full 45 minute tacho break & didn't get put through to anyone in all that time so had to hang up as he had to get back to work.

I take it that your brother has sent an LBA?

He has.


Issued a 2 week deadline - ignored.


Issued a 30 day LBA - ignored.

JustAnotherSaver

James2k wrote: »

there is mention of this age and mileage thing here: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

but also the fact (like has been said here) it must do what its supposed to, i.e be a car safely. regardless of age.

A few on this forum think that old cars from dealers are practically caveat emptor.

The way i see it, you buy an old car and, for example, the heated seats don't work or a crack develops in a seat cover etc, well one could see that as 'taking into account its age'. But if the transmission fails, its not fit for purpose, regardless of price paid.

Agreed.


He's not here complaining about a few scratches and stone chips and a dodgy window winder. All things you'd accept with an 'old car'. The issues he's noted & have been confirmed by the garage report are quite major.


And costly to repair ... getting on to what he paid for the car.

JustAnotherSaver

wgl2014 wrote: »

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5820319/bought-car-garage-wont-cant-fix-dash-light

Same car as this? Assumed it would be. If not your family appear to be having some bad luck with cars.
.

No not the same car as that as there is 1 major difference - this is a case i said is about my brother. The thread you linked to is a situation my sister was in.


The problem arises when a certain type of member goes digging looking for things that don't even exist because the reality isn't juicy enough for them --- and there seems to be a lot of that sort on this message board.


Like i said, i'm not here for anything other than advice. Not to impress anyone, not to get attention, not to tell stories, just for advice.



Yes they're both having bad luck with cars (my sisters situation is actually sorted now) but that's probably because they both rushed in to a purchase against my advice but such is life. They both also seem to think that Golf's and/or Volkswagen's are top rate cars. They're not. I don't own a VW ora VAG car of any kind yet mine has so far had 1 major issue in 10 years of ownership and costs a damn sight less to repair and maintain than a VAG.



Actually the Golf my brother bought wasn't as much of a rush buy as his previous. He actually test drove this one and it appeared fine on the drive. It was only after a couple days did he start thinking there were issues with it if i remember right.

JustAnotherSaver

Quentin wrote: »

Further to the answer you were given, should he be worried about paying for a claim in excess of £1000 and his interest would breach the £1000 level then he can claim just £50! (If the interest is in excess)

I wonder if it would be better to err on the side of caution and bank that he'd be over the £1k marker.

And of course if he wins the court fees will be paid by the defendant (assuming he has enough assets to pay!), so whatever the value of the claim would be irrelevant!

The garage have plenty of cars for sale that would cover the cost should they be seized and auctioned off (if that happens).

(Not a good idea to embark on a claim without proper legal advice on his chances - if he loses not only are his court fees unrecoverable, but he will have to pay the defendant's allowable expenses too)

He's contacted solicitors and i guess this isn't enough of an earner for them as they're steering him towards MoneyClaimsOnline to do it himself.

NeilCr

He spoke to his local CAB. It sounds like he was then given the number for The Consumer Helpline (run by CitA) who he has already been in touch with. They have more expertise on consumer issues and local branches will pass clients on to them for advice on the subject.

JustAnotherSaver

NeilCr wrote: »

He spoke to his local CAB. It sounds like he was then given the number for The Consumer Helpline (run by CitA) who he has already been in touch with. They have more expertise on consumer issues and local branches will pass clients on to them for advice on the subject.

Just to clarify ... he called 03454 04 05 06 initially who he's been calling throughout. They told him they can only advise up to and including the letter before action.


They then put him on to 0344 488 9622 who they said are open Mon-Fri 10-4 and can advise him on filling the form out. Part of the menu system of this second number is entering your landline number to get a place near to where you live.


I think he's going to try again Monday morning 10:00 on the dot and see how much of a queue he gets put in to then.



Not sure if there's a deadline after the letter before action as it's now been 2 weeks since the 30 days given in it expired.

NeilCr

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

Just to clarify ... he called 03454 04 05 06 initially who he's been calling throughout. They told him they can only advise up to and including the letter before action.


They then put him on to 0344 488 9622 who they said are open Mon-Fri 10-4 and can advise him on filling the form out. Part of the menu system of this second number is entering your landline number to get a place near to where you live.


I think he's going to try again Monday morning 10:00 on the dot and see how much of a queue he gets put in to then.



Not sure if there's a deadline after the letter before action as it's now been 2 weeks since the 30 days given in it expired.

Ah. Got it.

The other way round to how I had it!

That sounds like the Consumer Helpline redirecting him to his local office.

As long as it isn't unreasonable I don't think there is a time limit on an LBA running out. But best to get the form done as soon as possible. One of the points of an LBA is to demonstrate to the court that you have made efforts to settle the matter. It can kick the debtor into action, too. Not that often, in my experience, anyway!

JustAnotherSaver

NeilCr wrote: »

Ah. Got it.

The other way round to how I had it!

That sounds like the Consumer Helpline redirecting him to his local office.

As long as it isn't unreasonable I don't think there is a time limit on an LBA running out. But best to get the form done as soon as possible. One of the points of an LBA is to demonstrate to the court that you have made efforts to settle the matter. It can kick the debtor into action, too. Not that often, in my experience, anyway!

Yeah the garage quite clearly are calling his bluff because until court papers come through the door then it's just talk.



He initially text the salesman about the refund who refused. IIRC it was because it's an old car - the excuses i've been given early on in this thread really. He said something on the lines of taking it to trading standards & the salesman/garage response was "well go to trading standards then".



His first letter (the initial request for a refund, before the LBA letter) started out something on the lines of - upon your request via text message, i have consulted trading standards as well as the Consumer Rights Act 2015..." :rotfl:






I think the fear/concern right now is that by filling the N1 form out incorrectly the court could get finicky and dismiss the claim - so my brother loses out.


By incorrectly & finicky i mean....


* the defendants name & address. We'd just put it as it appears on their website & invoice but when you read the N1 notes it suggests you need to add in extra information depending on who you're claiming against. Simple wording such as "- a firm". Could missing out this (what we'd see as insignificant) wording have the claim binned?


* brief description of claim & particulars of claim - to me it's the same question. Could answering one with what should go in the other end up with the claim binned?


He bought the car, within days it was apparent it had major issues. It's been taken to a garage and confirmed. Attempts have been made to resolve this which have failed as the defendant refuses to respond ... and that's basically it. To me that answers both questions. Would filling them out incorrectly lead to it being dismissed because it's not been filled out flawlessly? I don't know how finicky the courts can be (i imagine the answer is very) - hence the delay & why we want to make sure it's filled out correctly.

AndyMc.....

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

I wonder if it would be better to err on the side of caution and bank that he'd be over the £1k marker.


The garage have plenty of cars for sale that would cover the cost should they be seized and auctioned off (if that happens).



He's contacted solicitors and i guess this isn't enough of an earner for them as they're steering him towards MoneyClaimsOnline to do it himself.

Is long as they're finance free and owned by the garage.