National Gas wants me to pay previous owner's outstanding Bill!!

Bishwa

Hello,

I am in search of advise on this matter. After serving 14 years in the British Army, I decided to start a business venture. I bought a restaurant on 09 Aug 18. The gas meter was removed on 23 Jul 18 due to the unpaid bills of the previous owners. The sales process took about 3 months due to the solicitors going on Holiday and I told previous owners to sort out the problem with the National Gas. I submitted the License to Assign, Rent Deposit Deed, Sales Contract Document, solicitor's lawyer and the application for the land registry to inform them that I am the new owner and the new occupier. National Gas did not accept me as a new occupier. They want to see my name on the Land Registry. I told them it is on the process and it can take some time. They did not accept that. The previous owners did not register on the Land register because they told my solicitors they forgot about it so now they are registering as well and is delaying the process. The previous owners stopped trading around April/May as they had different commitments and decided to sell the restaurant. I asked them If I could practice and learn the business before the sales completion to see the actual potential of the business. For training and learning purposes I open the restaurant on 25 Jun 18 with the permission of the previous. On 04 Jul 18 I inform all the utility companies that I am on the process of buying this restaurant and to start my new account. All utility companies started my account from 06 Jun 18 apart from the National Gas. On 23 Jul 18, National Gas removes the gas meter. On 26 Jul 18, I received a letter of rejection on a letter dates on 20 Jul 18 (must be a very slow postman).

I also suspect an unlawful entry to the premises because the Gas company removed the Gas meter on 23 Jul 18 when the restaurant was closed. They did not send any notice 24 hours prior to the disconnection. They left a letter but did not mention anything about Warrant from the Magistrates Court. Maybe that letter was the warrant which I am not sure but you can have a look as I have attached it. When I asked the National Gas to see if there was any warrant then they say that they cannot disclose the information as I am not the account holder. As current owner whose business has been affected by this incident, I believe I might have a little bit of right to access the information.

My problem here is that my Restaurant Business is closed because we are not able to cook. I do not have any cash flow as this is my full time job and dream. I explained to them I have to pay other expenses like Business Rent, it's Utility Bills, staff for waiting, my own personal bills and mortgage. If I don't start trading I am going lose a lot of money. I even said that I will pay from 06 Jun 18 (that was when my company was formed) plus the re-connection fees as a good will gesture to the previous owner and the National Gas. But National Gas still wants me to pay all the outstanding bill. When I ask them how much is the outstanding balance and they told me they can't tell me as I am not the account holder. I am not their consumer and do not fall under any contract with them but due to the National Gas my business is closed down temporarily.

I am new in the Business world but I do know some rights. I do not believe that I should be forced to pay previous owner's bill so I have said thatI am not going to pay a penny. I will donate that money to a charity but not to a bully Company.

Are there any rules that states that I am responsible to pay for the outstanding balance of the previous which the National gas could not be bothered to recover.

I have made a complaint. Spoke to Citizen Advice and Energy Ombudsman (they say I have to wait 8 weeks). I am spending money on different lawyer's legal advise fees about this case. Each day I am losing money!!

Any suggestion will be a great help for me.

Quentin

As you are paying a lawyer then that is the best person to put your questions to rather than seeking advice/opinions here

Bishwa

Yes I have paid lawyers. They are telling me the basic legal advice which I already knew why reading the rules and regulations. My post is to get advise from anyone who has knowledge on this matter. They don't have be a lawyer. Some of them might have been through this kind of situations. I took in what the lawyers said to me and I will take in what ever advise I can get from anyone. You never know when you will get the valuable knowledge you can get from a stranger sometimes.

[Deleted User]

Just to be clear which business supplier you are dealing with
.Are you in dispute with National Gas and Power ltd ?
If this is the supplier then it has had its licence to supply revoked last July by OFGEM.
You are not responsible for paying the former owners debts or energy bills but of course suppliers need to know that you have no connection at all with the former owner. You need to do everything possible to help with this .Any delay in providing information then the suppliers will suspect that the new owner is connected to the debtor.
Gas suppliers will have rights of entry which does not need 24 hours notice if there is a suspected gas leak or dangerous gas meter.That would cover any gas meters in the property which has been tampered with to provide free or reduced price gas .Possibly this is the situation where the 24 hrs notice to disconnect was nt observed.
I have some experience in my job where if I found a dangerous/tampered meter than the warrant is obtained quickly and Revenue Protection , most probably British Gas ., just go in as fast as possible with a locksmith if the premises are unoccupied. You need to be clear of the real reasons why the meter was removed in the first place..
I am afraid that many takeaways and restaurants do get involved in gas and electric theft and they are the main target for Revenue Protection Units

Bishwa

It is not the National Gas and Power Ltd. It is Nation Gas based in London. The Gas meter was removed due to the previous occupier's unpaid bills.
Scenario of the Situation:
A = Me the new owner
B= The National Gas
C= The previous owner who left without paying gas bills

Now the B wants A to pay for C's outstanding bill.

Is there any rule in Gas Act 1986 or human rights or any legislation that states that A is the offender and should pay the outstanding bills of C?

molerat

In a commercial contract it all depends on what A actually purchased from C and what legal entity both A and C are. That is what you pay lawyers for.

Bishwa

It's simple. When you buy a business you don't buy debts. You buy goodwill. The accountant checks and makes sure that you create your own Ltd Company, not transfer the Ltd Company of the previous owners (which could be very easy and is everything already up and running for you). On this case A has no commercial contract with the Gas Company as he is not even their costumer (only wannabe costumer) plus he is not the Director of the old company that was linked with the account of the Gas company. I am still investing money on different lawyers in order to get the best outcome. Legal advice was never given to me in free by any lawyers.

[Deleted User]

I have had a look at National Gas rates for residential. They are not too bad actually, offering a long 3 year domestic fixed rate tariff at 20p a day standing charge and 3.7 p per gas kwh for my area, which may be a good gamble in the long run.Who knows how the prices will be in 2 years time ?
Possibly when you get the Land Registry hold up sorted it may be that it could be better to stay with them.
Its worth it to check a business gas comparison site such as Uswitch to get the best deals once this billing problem is over
National Gas and Power are a different supplier in receivership and apparently Nation Gas does not exist.
Like everyone who moves into a new property be it domestic or business you are automatically in a deemed contract with the present supplier to the property. There is no other way the switching system could work without expensive visits from engineers to disconnect and reconnect gas and electricity.
Seem s like the crux of your problem is the final proof that you have no connections with the outgoing debtor and not just someone who has taken over the account to escape debts.
This is a common trick with both domestic and business users so all suppliers would check for this

Bishwa

I can understand that the suppliers have to check everything to ensure the record is correct. It would not be a good idea to anyone to pay 3 different law firms (buyer's solicitor, seller's solicitor and Landlord's solicitor)SRA registered with long term reputation (1400 x 3 = 4200 pounds), Council fees, Land Registry fees, the big amount of premium of the business, 4000 pounds deposit to the Landlord, spending 3 months of process for the sales completion just to trick Gas Company and avoid paying a gas bill which might be around 2000 - 3000 pounds.

The debtors are no longer the owner of the Restaurant. According to sales contract the liabilities are to be cleared by the seller before the completion date.

I am a proud owner of a Restaurant which I cannot open as there is no gas meter. A restaurant cannot trade without gas as we need to be able to cook to trade. Other expenses related to business, my personal expenses and the cost for our livelihood will not compromise with the situation.

It is up to the National Gas and the debtor to sort out their love affair. All I want is the gas meter back as per Gas Act 1986. By not reconnecting the gas for the new occupier, it means that the company have failed to perform their duty as an energy supplier. I have told the Gas Company that I will not even pay a penny before the 06 Jun 18 but I will take the matter to the Court after Ombudsman to claim my compensation for the business loss and the time loss. I think in court the Judge will go with evidences provided to the court to decide the outcome not just not listen to a Gas Company saying that "they believe...". The National Gas only believes that I am not the new owner even after supplying them with License to Lease, Rent Deposit Deed, Completed Sales contract and the application form of the Land Registry (which is being processed and they can call the department). With your remarks about the prices I do say that it sounds good. But my suggestion to the people is to stick with the Big 6 Gas companies. It is more secured and they have a reasonable system.

HampshireH

[QUOTEThe debtors are no longer the owner of the Restaurant. According to sales contract the liabilities are to be cleared by the seller before the completion date.][/QUOTE]

Why did completion take place before this mess was sorted out if your contract states it would not? Your solicitor should have been advising you accordingly.

Bishwa

The solicitor checked the sales document and made sure the liabilities is started from the completion date. There might be 100s of debt and if the solicitor chase those debts the completion date would take a year. As far as I know, my solicitor checked all clauses and because of those clauses I am protected. If the seller did not pay the bills then that’s their liability and responsibility. Now I can’t complain to my solicitor if the seller had hidden debts on his name but surely can thank him to ensure that there was no loop hole in the sales contract.