HMRC Penalties while in Time to pay arrangment

dave1968

Hi I have a time to pay arrangement with HMRC which is up to date. No default. And now i notice they are adding a penalty for late payment of year ending 2017 tax for around £390 but this year 2017 is included in the agreement which I am currently paying of.



Surley they can not continue to charge penalties for late payment with an agreement in place. I know interest will still be charged but this is something else. When I called the enforcement team who are dealing with my account they said that the full amount included that penalty but clearly it has not.



Can they actually do this ? as it seems so wrong to add further penalties when im paying as per agreement ?



Any info on this would be appreciated many thanks

BoGoF

It depends when the time to pay arrangemrnt was formally agreed.....before or after the late payment trigger dates?

BoGoF

What does your Self Assessment describe it as......'30 days' or '6 months' late payment penalty?

And on what date did HMRC accept your payment proposals?

dave1968

It is for a 6 month late penalty for a tax year that was included in the TTP arrangement.. The arrangment was agreed in May and I have just been notified of this penalty today.



Anyway I called them spoke to the guy who set up the agreement and apparently Hmrc are within there rights to keep charging late payment penaltys even with a TTP in place. And he said you would need to clear this amount in your final payment. He said allot of people calling there office today with the same question.


So seems nothing I can do they can still charge penalty's even on tax years included in the TTP .


Just seems so heavy handed to me, interest sure but to add penalties after an agreement in place. But cant argue with them. Unless I wanted to be made bankrupt - which I cant allow.



Hard going though stress on this is unreal at times. thanks

dave1968

The TTP was agreed in May this year, penalty issued today, due to be added to my tax account October. It never ends!

BoGoF

You should appeal it on the basis that TTP agreed before trigger date, HMRC own guidelines say it should not be applied (unless you default). The GOV.UK site seems to be down at the minute but refer to Self Assessment Manual section 61250.

Appeal in writing.

dave1968

Thanks for this BoGof I will certainly check it! I have appealed with success a number of past penalties but the guy i spoke to today said he dont hold out much hope of any appeal being a success. They sent out allot of notices this week apparently to lots of people on TTP arrangements.



He said HMRC are within there rights to do this. They can be difficult to work with as each department can tell you different things. But thanks for the reply appreciated all.

dave1968

Found it !



Exceptions (to late payment penaltys)

• Where a time to pay (TTP) arrangement was agreed before a trigger date. (However, if the arrangement is later cancelled because the customer defaulted, a penalty will be raised and calculated on the amount that was outstanding at the trigger date)

Just dont get why I was told something else. But I will write in and appeal this.

BoGoF

If you spoke to someone in debt management then their job is really just to collect what the computer says. They sometimes don't know the rules.

Would suggest you appeal using this form

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/self-assessment-appeal-against-penalties-for-late-filing-and-late-payment-sa370

dave1968

Hi BoGof thanks for the link. Yes I used those forms before for other appeals which they did agree with (thankfully!) and will appeal this later this week. I have learned that the different departments at HMRC dont really know what the other is doing. Had so much mis-information the past 2 months, and a few errors on there side which I managed to catch.



Some are better than others at dealing with queries but its worth checking every single aspect of an account if in arrears like me. Im defo appealing this penalty. Also I get everything where I can in writing. And they are sending me confirmation my account is upto date and further penalty's that could be added will not effect the current TTP. It took around 8 phone calls and 2 weeks of work to get them to see the point I was making.



Roll on early next year when I am clear of this c r @ p totally (i hope) lesson learned for me. Pay my taxes and dont ignore the brown envelopes ever! I only have myself to thank for this wretched mess!



thanks for the replys all.