Motor insurance post Brexit

unholyangel

waamo wrote: »

The government pr!cis gives these details

"By ratifying the Convention, the UK will therefore ensure that drivers can continue to travel as they do now in EU member states post-Exit."

Stopping insurance wholesale would certainly render that untrue

Context is key. That phrase you've plucked is under the heading "international driving permit".

waamo

Ok a link from the Motor Insurance Bureaux https://mib.org.uk/mib-insight/what-does-brexit-mean-for-cross-border-motor-travel-and-victim-protection/

The U.K. government has indicated it will implement all the requirements for the green card (or International Driving Permit to give it its correct title).

Hermione_Granger

waamo wrote: »

Ok a link from the Motor Insurance Bureaux

Why not post a link from the Vienna convention itself? or possibly from one of the many websites that explain what this convention actually is?

After all, to back up my argument I posted a direct link to the EU directive that covers motor insurance in EU member states so if you are convinced that the Vienna convention covers insurance, it should be easy enough for you to show this.

Hermione_Granger

waamo wrote: »

for the green card (or International Driving Permit to give it its correct title).

A "Green card" is not an international driving permit. They are two entirely different documents.

A Green card is proof of valid insurance cover and should state the registration of the vehicle it applies to.
An international driving permit is a document that proves that the holder is entitled to drive a private vehicle in certain countries that recognise the permit provided that the holder also has a valid driving licence issued by their country of residence.

Hermione_Granger

AdrianC wrote: »

And I repeat... United Nations, Vienna Conventions on Road Traffic.

I did a lot of digging on this a few years back

You can repeat it as often as you like, that still doesn't make it correct.
Best you do a bit more digging and read the actual Vienna convention itself. Do that and you will see that it in no way covers vehicle insurance.

waamo

This is what the MIB have to say about it https://www.mib.org.uk/making-a-claim/accidents-in-the-uk-involving-a-foreign-registered-vehicle/green-card-system-explained/

Are you saying (in a roundabout way) that insurance won't continue after brexit or that international cover isn't covered by UN Convention or that it's purely through EU directives?

Hermione_Granger

waamo wrote: »

Are you saying (in a roundabout way) that insurance won't continue after brexit or that international cover isn't covered by UN Convention or that it's purely through EU directives?

I'm not saying that insurance cover in the rest of the EU won't continue as it is now because I don't know. What ultimately happens will probably depend on the terms of whatever deal is agreed (If there is one) or on whether or not insurance companies will be willing to continue to provide TP cover for drivers travelling to the EU.
I am saying that insurance cover when driving in other EU member states is nothing what so ever to do with the 1968 Vienna Convention on road traffic and is all to do with an EU directive.

I'm happy to be proven wrong by either yourself or AdrianC, and to do this all that is needed is a link to the relevant article of the convention.

Hermione_Granger

waamo wrote: »

This is what the MIB have to say about it https://www.mib.org.uk/making-a-claim/accidents-in-the-uk-involving-a-foreign-registered-vehicle/green-card-system-explained/

On on that link, how many references or links are made to the Vienna convention?
None.

How many references are made to EU directives on insurance?
http://www.cobx.org/content/default.asp?PageID=17

This one being my favourite

For countries belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA): the European Motor Insurance Directive provides that a Motor Third Party Liability (MTPL) insurance must cover, on the basis of one single premium, the entire territory of the EEA. The EEA consists of the 28 Member States of the European Union, together with Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. Moreover, Andorra, Serbia and Switzerland, although not members of the EEA, also belong to this area of a single premium. This means that the normal price of MTPL insurance in these countries will allow travelling to all other mentioned countries.

waamo

From the EU https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=SWD%3A2018%3A247%3AFIN

The first EU Directive on motor insurance 1 was adopted in 1972, with the dual objectives of protecting victims of motor vehicle accidents, (with or without a cross-border element), and facilitating the free movement of motor vehicles between Member States. The foundations of EU motor insurance legislation lie in the International Green Card System (see Box 1), but the EU legislation goes further

A bit further on

. Box 1: International Green Card system and EU Motor Insurance Legislation
The Green Card is an international certificate of third party liability insurance that makes it possible for travellers to drive cross-border without having to buy supplementary insurance. The system is run by a Council of Bureaux and was set up in 1949 under the auspices of the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE). There are three categories of Green Card Members: EEA Member States, Members under Section III of the Internal Regulations (Andorra, Croatia, Serbia and Switzerland) and standard Green Card Members. Vehicles from EEA Member States and Section III States can travel freely between the relevant territories even without the Green Card as the number plates of vehicles from such Member States are presumed to be the proof of insurance.

There are further notes here
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=celex%3A32009L0103

Essentially it says the EU directives are following agreements already signed under UN Convention which the U.K. already has legislation in place to ratify on Brexit.

Insurance will continue under UN Convention (to be fair it is actually multiple conventions, the Vienna Convention established the International Driving Permit which subsequent conventions established further meanings to) but the crux is you don't need to be in the EU for insurance to apply.

Hermione_Granger

waamo wrote: »

Essentially it says the EU directives are following agreements already signed under UN Convention which the U.K. already has legislation in place to ratify on Brexit.

Insurance will continue under UN Convention (to be fair it is actually multiple conventions, the Vienna Convention established the International Driving Permit which subsequent conventions established further meanings to) but the crux is you don't need to be in the EU for insurance to apply.

Why are you so fixated with the international driving permit?
This is basically an internationally recognised driving licence (provided that you already have a valid licence from your country of citizenship) and is nothing to do with insurance.
I have an IDP and this will remain valid even if I dont have any motor insurance or own/drive any vehicles.

You can try to change your stance as many times as you like but your earlier argument that

insurance is covered by the Vienna Convention.

is simply incorrect.
I will make it easy to understand.

THERE IS NOTHING IN THE 1968 VIENNA CONVENTION ON ROAD TRAFFIC THAT RELATES TO INTER COUNTRY MOTOR INSURANCE.