Useless Solicitors

RetiredButNotDeadYet

We have been implementing our plan to emigrate to Spain before March 2019

In mid May, we found a cash buyer. For various reasons we agreed the completion and move would take place in the first two weeks of September. That was 18 weeks away. Everyone was clear and agreed on this.

On the reccomendation of the estate agent, we engaged a sister company of thiers called Countrywide Conveyancing. (CC)

On the 3rd Sept, a van will come and empty this house. We have agreed to complete on 7th Sept, and we take the ferry on 10th Sept. We have rented a holiday chalet for a week for 3rd-10th sept, and a villa in Spain for a month)1th Sept - 10th Oct) as a stop gap, while we compelte the purchase of a house in Spain, of which we have already put £3500 deposit. We are also now into this for £600 ferry fee, and £1700 for the removals, £1200 accomadation charges, all now unrefundable

Countrywide Conveyancing are a nightmare. They are utterly useless. Delay, procrastinate, failing to act. Never answer emails, hard to get on the phone. Its a call centre full of unqualified people, who just pass messages on,. You never get to talk to an actual solicitor.

It is now26th August. in 4 working days the van comes, in 7 working days we need completion as agreed from day 1. They havent even exchanged contracts yet, for the last three weeks they have promised to exchange, but then found another reason to delay.

The latest is to do with a 2nd charge on the house, being dealt with by Rossingtons. CC said they need a settlemnt figure, i gave them the contact details. They didnt ring Rossingtons, they rang Rossingtons Solicitors, thus introducing yet another delay in the line of communication. After a week I rang Rossingtons, they had had no communication from either, they knew nothing. I spoke to them, explained the problem, they primised to send me a settlement figure by first class post, hopefully that will turn up tues or wednesday.

Now heres the questions i need help on

1. The settlement of the 2nd charge is nothig to do with the comveyance, its to do with dispersal of the funds AFTER completion, surely? So why does it hold up the exchange? Whats stops them exchanging now Rossingtons have agreed to send me the figure? Surely, as long as they have it when it comes to disbursement, thats the important bit?

2 Am I entitled to take all the documentation to date, if I want, and ask another solicitor to exchange and complete for us ?

3. Am I entitled to do the exchange, if the buyer agrees, ie get the docs, physically transfer them to the buyers solicitor, take the buyers docs, and take them to CC? Can I insist on acting as the courier to ensure fastest delivery ? (The two solicitors are 200 miles apart, but we are on good terms and in contact with the buyer)

4. If CC fail to complete on time and we lose the ferry fees, the temp accomadation rent, or any other costs, can i sue them ?

What can I do to make this happen on time?

davidmcn

RetiredButNotDeadYet wrote: »

1. The settlement of the 2nd charge is nothig to do with the comveyance, its to do with dispersal of the funds AFTER completion, surely?

No, the solicitors need to know that they'll have sufficient funds to redeem all secured loans before completion (because the buyers are relying on your solicitors' undertaking to do so).

If CC fail to complete on time and we lose the ferry fees, the temp accommodation rent, or any other costs, can i sue them ?

Did they advise you to make those commitments before exchange has happened? There are all sorts of reasons why the transaction might not happen with the originally-anticipated timescale (or at all), which is why the general advice is not to book removals etc until exchange.

TBagpuss

1. The settlement of the 2nd charge is nothig to do with the comveyance, its to do with dispersal of the funds AFTER completion, surely? So why does it hold up the exchange? Whats stops them exchanging now Rossingtons have agreed to send me the figure? Surely, as long as they have it when it comes to disbursement, thats the important bit?

Yes, but they have to be sure that it will be cleared. The buyers (or rather their solicitors) will have to be satisfied that the charge will be removed on completion, and will require a formal undertaking that that will happen. Your conveyancers won't be able to give that undertaking unless they know how much will be required, in order to make sure that there will be enough money to cover it.

2 Am I entitled to take all the documentation to date, if I want, and ask another solicitor to exchange and complete for us ?

Yes, but you may well find that it would slow things down as they would need to satisfy themselves that everything was in order.

3. Am I entitled to do the exchange, if the buyer agrees, ie get the docs, physically transfer them to the buyers solicitor, take the buyers docs, and take them to CC? Can I insist on acting as the courier to ensure fastest delivery ? (The two solicitors are 200 miles apart, but we are on good terms and in contact with the buyer)

There's not a lot of point. Exchange normally takes place by phone, with the papers then sent by post afterwards, couriering them doesn't save any time. What would you hop to achieve?

4. If CC fail to complete on time and we lose the ferry fees, the temp accomadation rent, or any other costs, can i sue them ?

Probably not, unless you have a contract with them which explicitly provides for completion by a certain date. I would suggest that you raise your concerns now with CC, in writing, making it clear that you are unhappy with the service and that you have a hard deadline and want them to expedite things.

However, it's never a good idea to incur costs before you have exchanged as timing is never set in stone.

steampowered

It is unfortunate that you went with the EA's recommendation - Countrywide are indeed rubbish. But I think given where you are, you are stuck with it now.

Have a read of their complaints policy at https://www.cwpl.co.uk/Guides-Forms/PDF_Complaints_procedure_for_Clients.pdf. I would be constantly calling them and if unable to get a decent response would be insisting on speaking to the Team Manager or Operations Director.

Exchange does not mean the solicitors have to physically delivering the documents. The solicitors would exchange over the phone once they have both parties' signed contracts.

If you can afford to pay off Rossingtons now and get the charge removed, that might be the quickest way of doing it. You should be able to exchange with a settlement figure though.

Tiglet2

For various reasons we agreed the completion and move would take place in the first two weeks of September. That was 18 weeks away. Everyone was clear and agreed on this.

First rule of conveyancing is that dates are merely a suggestion not a contractual obligation. This was your biggest mistake. You have mistaken "everyone agreed" as binding. It is not binding until exchange. While your solicitor may have listened to your preference for September (and being 18 weeks away it may have been achievable), if there are any problems (i.e. 2nd charge), this will delay matters and any "agreed" dates may go by the wayside.

Countrywide Conveyancing are a nightmare.

Yes they do employ unqualified people to do the pre-legal work. They take on a lot of work and may not have the manpower to respond to each and every case the second something happens. Conveyancing always takes longer than you think it will. Even in straight forward cases, it does depend on how much work the solicitor has at any given time, and whether other cases have more priority than yours. You are not their only client. It doesn't mean they are useless. It means that you have to be patient and perhaps take some responsbility for the fact that they may not work at the pace you would like and that their reasonable fees compared to high end solicitors, are because they don't have enough staff to cope with the workload.

The latest is to do with a 2nd charge on the house, being dealt with by Rossingtons. CC said they need a settlemnt figure, i gave them the contact details.

CC will need to request a redemption statement. The request can be emailed. The response can be emailed, but it does have to be done. They won't accept a statement provided by you. Again, workload may have meant that this should have been done a few weeks ago, but has not been. However, I very much doubt CC gave any guarantees to you about completing on your "agreed" date. To them, it is merely another process in the transaction to be done as and when they can.

As to your three points:
1. Your buyers won't exchange until they have the undertaking that the 2nd charge will be paid off. Your solicitor won't give the undertaking until they have the redemption figure, can see that the sale proceeds will cover the charge, or you pay it off before completion. This needs to be resolved in order to exchange.
2. A new solicitor will want to go through all the documents to make sure it is all in order. It will also take some time for the current solicitor to release the paperwork to you. In a nutshell, this will delay matters even further.
3. Absolutely waste of time. As others have pointed out, the exchange is a phone call where the two solicitors compare the contracts to make sure they both have agreed the same terms. The phone call takes around 5-10 minutes. Then the solicitors send each other their versions of the contract in the post.
4. Nothing is binding before exchange. You haven't exchanged so are therefore cannot sue for monies spent. You state you wanted to retire to Spain by March 2019, but have "agreed" to go in September before you had even started the process - you would have been better not imposing deadlines on anyone until much nearer exchange when you would have had a clearer picture of timescales.

It sounds as though you have been very organised for your onward future in Spain but fundamentally, you did not take into account the work that your conveyancing solicitors had to do and the length of time needed to do it. Perhaps you should have looked at the reviews for CC - they are pretty poor and the main complaint is the length of time it has taken to get to completion.

Thrugelmir

RetiredButNotDeadYet wrote: »

On the 3rd Sept, a van will come and empty this house. We have agreed to complete on 7th Sept, and we take the ferry on 10th Sept. We have rented a holiday chalet for a week for 3rd-10th sept, and a villa in Spain for a month)1th Sept - 10th Oct) as a stop gap, while we compelte the purchase of a house in Spain, of which we have already put £3500 deposit. We are also now into this for £600 ferry fee, and £1700 for the removals, £1200 accomadation charges, all now unrefundable

None of this appears to impact your house sale.

Thrugelmir

RetiredButNotDeadYet wrote: »

They are utterly useless. Delay, procrastinate, failing to act. Never answer emails, hard to get on the phone. Its a call centre full of unqualified people, who just pass messages on,.

How many times have you had the need to contact them?

RetiredButNotDeadYet

We cant pay rossingtons off until completion, we need £20k out the sale funds to pay them off.

RetiredButNotDeadYet

Thrugelmir wrote: »

How many times have you had the need to contact them?

several times, when things have stopped and we've had to gee them up to get stuff moving again. Even the estate Ageant is sympathetic and has had to join in geeing them up.

RetiredButNotDeadYet

davidmcn wrote: »

Did they advise you to make those commitments before exchange has happened? There are all sorts of reasons why the transaction might not happen with the originally-anticipated timescale (or at all), which is why the general advice is not to book removals etc until exchange.

No, but these things have to be booked months in advance - the ferry for example after Aug is only once a week, and its now booked up for xmas.. Thats why we allowed do much time for the conveyance.

HampshireH

As long as you exchange before you depart then thats enough. You could complete from afar. Leaving the keys with someone trusted to hand them over on the day. Alternatively it is only spain. A short flight if you had to return and physically be there in person.

That said we do have a bank holiday to contend with which is always a good excuse for a delay.